unclej Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I watched the warm up yesterday, with Kevin Phillips dropping the ball in front of our attacking outfit with the view to those players finishing the job with one in the onion bag. The best at this was certainly Russel who actually got one on target. The worst was 'Row Z Martin'. Having watched all the football over the last few weeks I mused over the general poor quality of control through our team, leading to some of the worst passing I've ever seen. I couldn't believe how many times we gave the ball away against Man U but yesterday was no better. We've got to get this aspect of our game sorted out if we are to any kind of force to be reckoned with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 12 minutes ago, unclej said: I watched the warm up yesterday, with Kevin Phillips dropping the ball in front of our attacking outfit with the view to those players finishing the job with one in the onion bag. The best at this was certainly Russel who actually got one on target. The worst was 'Row Z Martin'. Having watched all the football over the last few weeks I mused over the general poor quality of control through our team, leading to some of the worst passing I've ever seen. I couldn't believe how many times we gave the ball away against Man U but yesterday was no better. We've got to get this aspect of our game sorted out if we are to any kind of force to be reckoned with. Whilst I would agree, I would suggest a major player in this is the lack of movement in the team when we have possession. Not enough options for the passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Your point is overall valid. Referring to the Man Utd game loses credit though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I studied the first 16 or so minutes v preston. it was amazing how negative and safe the passing was. the defenders had an average of 15 touches each, the centrl midfielders had an average of ten touches, and the strikers had an average of just 3 touches each. the number of positive successful forward passes was minimal. christie 1 /13 warnock 5/19 thorne 3/11 butterfield 1/10 hendrick 2/10 and the number of negative passes or errors was equally striking christie -3/13 warnock -5/19 thorne -3/11 butterfield -7/10 hendrick -6/10 apart from warnock and thorne who were both 50/50, the majority of the players that we would expect to initiate attacks were actually negative and were more likely to go backwards. The front three therefore were not receiving many successful forward passes - martin had only 2 touches of the ball. (For one of those he put hendrick in on goal for the miss after 31 seconds). i suspect that players are judged on the percentage of successful passes and have become more likely to select a negative pass or a sideways pass. As a consequence - in this sample passage of play - we didn't manage to achieve anything with all the possession we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambalin Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 In todays Sun Gus Hiddink is quoted on it And Hiddink added: “I think the first thought must be forward, not sideways. They like to see also what we like to see¿ more goals. They like to see more play in the box. But we had the same problem a few weeks ago. “There was once when we looked at the figures and said ‘We had 65, 67 and 70 per cent possession’. But there were opponents who said, ‘We don’t care how much possession you have, we have the score’. “That’s why you must not overrate the percentage of possession. It’s what you do with your possession. “Most of the teams want to have the ball, but what do you do with the ball? “Do you secure your way of playing or do you go as soon as possible on the attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 4 hours ago, rammieib said: Your point is overall valid. Referring to the Man Utd game loses credit though. I'm not looking for credit. 11 v 11 remember. Its even more important to complete passes when playing a team that can hurt you when you lose possession. The greatest offence in football is to give the ball to the opposite team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 26 minutes ago, unclej said: I'm not looking for credit. 11 v 11 remember. Its even more important to complete passes when playing a team that can hurt you when you lose possession. The greatest offence in football is to give the ball to the opposite team. The instinct against a really good team is not to break loose, or want the ball for fear of losing it, thus options become limited. When you play teams who mentally you should know you're better than its either a confidence thing or a tactical issue. I believe it's both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 1 hour ago, unclej said: Its even more important to complete passes when playing a team that can hurt you when you lose possession. The greatest offence in football is to give the ball to the opposite team. Tbh Thats not supported by the stats. there is no correlation between % possession and no of chances created. or even between %possession and points. 4 out 5 games where we had >60% possession were draws. v preston home we had 60% possession and 0 shots on target. the problem is clearly what we do with the ball, or rather what we don't do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Exactly. That's why we can keep going through the whole team playing the blame game. You can pick 5 formations each per day And you still won't see improvement in the team because they move the ball too slow, losing the advantage of space any player may gain on their marker, thus resulting in only safe passes being available. It's pointless possession. What's the plan? To bore the opponents into making an error? Our opponents just casually stroll from squeezing one flank to the other. It's crap. Any formation, any individual would look crap trying to inject pace and movement into a series of free kicks that we use in the build ups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t'oldu Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 16 hours ago, unclej said: I'm not looking for credit. 11 v 11 remember. Its even more important to complete passes when playing a team that can hurt you when you lose possession. The greatest offence in football is to give the ball to the opposite team. Words to that effect used to be over the mirror in the Home dressing room at the BBG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 20 hours ago, RamNut said: I studied the first 16 or so minutes v preston. it was amazing how negative and safe the passing was. the defenders had an average of 15 touches each, the centrl midfielders had an average of ten touches, and the strikers had an average of just 3 touches each. the number of positive successful forward passes was minimal. christie 1 /13 warnock 5/19 thorne 3/11 butterfield 1/10 hendrick 2/10 and the number of negative passes or errors was equally striking christie -3/13 warnock -5/19 thorne -3/11 butterfield -7/10 hendrick -6/10 apart from warnock and thorne who were both 50/50, the majority of the players that we would expect to initiate attacks were actually negative and were more likely to go backwards. The front three therefore were not receiving many successful forward passes - martin had only 2 touches of the ball. (For one of those he put hendrick in on goal for the miss after 31 seconds). i suspect that players are judged on the percentage of successful passes and have become more likely to select a negative pass or a sideways pass. As a consequence - in this sample passage of play - we didn't manage to achieve anything with all the possession we had. Like a team playing like Ray Wilkins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Watching the Fulham game it was very clear that rarely did our players ever create triangles, sounds daft I know but it was very clear that most of the time the player in posetion only had 1 option of pass on and then it was played back to him or across a line , it made it very easy to press our players on the ball and usually resulted in a negative pass or a poor pass giving the ball away ,, for me it's really about our movement off the ball when we are in posetion, we look like we are more concerned about keeping our shape and being in the right position in case we lose the ball rather than taking up positions and making runs that make the most of us having the ball ,, don't know if that's tactics or our players have just stopped moving off the ball ,yes we want to be more solid in defence but you also have to take risks when you have the ball and get forward,, is it just plain and simply that we just cannot strike the balance between being solid at the back and being fluid and natural in attack ? work work work ,,,, when we got the ball players need to work there arse off to get in positions to hurt the opposition , then when we do lose it or an attack breaks down they need to work their arse off to get back in a position to defend, their is a balance between football being off the cuff instinctive and rigid paint by numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 On 2/7/2016 at 14:51, sage said: Whilst I would agree, I would suggest a major player in this is the lack of movement in the team when we have possession. Not enough options for the passer. Totally agree, its just as important running without the ball as it is with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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