The amount of money we're spending

[archied]

Butterfield , Johnson , camara, Blackman , ince, they are the type of players that prem clubs may buy on their potential and find they can shine in the prem alongside more established prem players, maybe the plan is that these players are easily good enough to get us promoted when added to our current squad then when we do we invest biggish in more seasoned higher level players with these lads banging on the door to prove themselves at top level , we have players who are solid championship level who will be let go when we go up, some are assuming recent buys are the height of our ambition for the prem ,,, maybe not,, maybe it's a rolling thing and we are building the squad with players at the right age and potential to be a hit when we go up alongside more investment ,, let's be honest there's not a player mentioned above that would raise eyebrows if a prem club had bought them for the prices we paid?  There are players we have at Derby who we all really like but in our hearts kind of know they won't cut it at the next level,,,, don't stress , it's evolution of the squad,,,, just my view

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

8 hours ago, TETRA said:

Well I'm really glad that at last somebody has raised this issue. I make that very nearly £25 Million that our beloved Chairman Mr Morris has spent on our promotion challenge this season. Not concerned about whether or not Mr Morris can afford it, I'm very confident he can with ease. It's falling fowl of the FFP rules in the coming seasons should we fail again to gain promotion that concerns me a little, as I don't want us to go back to the nightmare situation we had under Clough & just before. Having studied the new rules & limits for this season, the limit in losses allowed is up to £39 Million over the next 3 years. That equates to £13 Million in losses each season. Now we don't seem to be selling any players & haven't been for a few years now, so that doesn't help bring the expenditure down at all. Ok the Club & Chairman have spun the dice it seems as should we go up then no problem at all, after all if we go up & finish bottom of the Prem next season we still make £120 Million just in Sky money. It could also be said that big attendances are also adding a very nice sum to our coffers. But should we fail I worry that this sort of expenditure could mean we suffer many sanctions both financial & in other ways. It will certainly be very interesting to read the balance sheet for this season when it's finally published.

As we all know players wages totally kill off any reasonable profit a successfully run club like Derby County should comfortably make. After doing a little bit of research the only club I could find that have recently published there financial results for last season is Brighton & Hove Albion. They seem from an outsiders point of view a well run club, their the only club that come anywhere near what we get in regard to regular attendances. So overall probably have a similar overall income to us. Well they lost £8 Million last season, & that included transfer market income of nearly £15 Million from selling three of their better players. 

So were does that leave us in the whole sceam of things I wonder ?. It might certainly be a case that we probably can't afford not to get promoted this season. KEEP THE FAITH I suppose, I'm sure Mr Rush & Mr Morris know what there doing.

I'd like to think the club have thought of this?

[Animal is a Ram]

Let those who are qualified and in charge of the coffers worry about the spending.

Given that the FFP rules relax for this season's accounts (that is, the ones due to be released in Q4 2016), and the finance types and MM are well aware of this, I seriously doubt the club are in much danger of bursting the rules.

Don't forget, we have a large amount coming in from corporate sponsors with JustEat and iPro being some of the biggest of their kind, huge attendances, and we are one of the most televised clubs in the league.

As far as calculating for FFP for player transfers, you divide by the contract length.

Bradley Johnson, c£6m, 4 year contract. = £1.5m for 2015/16 FFP.

Most of the big signings this season were 4yr contracts, so you can effectively take that summer c£20m spend and quarter it. Blackman was 3.5yr for c£2.5m, Camara was 2.5yr for c£1m.

Makes about £6m for FFP purposes, added on to what we spent in the last couple of years - Thorne was £2.5m over 4yrs, so there's another £625k.

We will have recouped some money on Albentosa and Sammon's loans - can't imagine they've gone out for free, as well as Rawson and Thomas.

These are all of course estimations - things like the exorbitant agent fees will inflate this, that was nearly £1m for us last season!

[DesertRam]

So in other words everything's looking rosy !  

[TETRA]

On 7 January 2016 at 09:47, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

I'd like to think the club have thought of this?

I'm sure they have, I'd like to know what are wage bill will turnout to be this season. Big money players demand big wages. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's now well in excess of £30 Million. But for all we've spent I just can't see us not going up this season somehow or other, I don't want to even contemplate missing out this season.

[Jourdan]

After last season's capitulation, it is fair to say that the squad needed improving in certain areas to get us over the line and promoted this year. But investment to the tune of £25 million? This approach was always going to raise eyebrows. After all, it was an abrupt and not overly necessary change from our previous transfer policy and general prudence, which was starting to pay off under McClaren, and it signalled considerable investment in a squad that had actually been in contention for promotion in the previous two campaigns. Not like say Sheffield Wednesday, where this kind of investment would appear completely warranted to take them to the next level.

To be honest, I can't find too much fault with the players signed in recent times. It's not the calibre of player we are signing that concerns me. For the most part, we are signing players who are proven performers at this level or higher and players that should enable us to achieve our goal and get promoted and hopefully in some cases, push on from there.

It's the prices we are having to pay to secure this calibre of player, which sometimes doesn't sit well with me.

Take Bradley Johnson at £6 million. Without question, he's a good player and he has a good track record in the Championship and higher.  It's also fair to say he's a good fit for us at this time because he has spiced things up and offered qualities we have been missing - the experience, tenacity, aggression, strength and athleticism in midfield.

But would I have paid £6 million for him? No. He is good for the here and now. But he wasn't an essential signing and he hasn't elevated us to the point where we can comfortably say he is value for money. He is not the type of player we are going to build the team around. He is not the type of player who is going to develop further. He is not someone who will command a place in the XI every week should we go up. in my opinion, his best years are behind him and his market value is only likely to decrease.

Compare that to the signing of Shackell, who looks worth every penny. Many baulked at his price tag because he's aging, he won't develop further and we are not likely to see teams bid several million for him in the future. But as soon as it was announced, he was obviously the best signing we were going to make all season. He has been incredibly pivotal since his return and has completely reinvigorated our defence. He is just what we needed for the here and now, but he is also in prime position to be one of the first names on the teamsheet next season, given how well he acquitted himself with Burnley in the Premier League and given the fact he is our best defender by some distance. He is someone who should be a prominent figure moving forward, irrespective of his age.

With Johnson, it's very different. With the likes of Thorne, Hughes, Butterfield, Hendrick and Ince, we have young footballers who are growing in stature week by week and have the talent and potential to step up and perform in the Premier League. When everyone is fit, is Johnson going to be favoured over these players? I doubt it somehow.

Generally speaking though, even though it has come at vast expense, Clement's signings have contributed to some on-the-field success and should it continue and no financial issues arise, it will leave Mel Morris feeling completely vindicated. But even so, it doesn't mean this approach is above questioning because it hasn't yet yielded promotion and we are yet to see if there are any implications financially, either good or bad.

But in a division where there are fine margins and it doesn't necessarily take a great deal of investment or a group of talented individuals to win promotion, apprehension is completely understandable.

Personally, I wouldn't have made such radical changes and I would have stayed true to our more conservative spending habits. Of the big money signings, only really Shackell and Butterfield have delivered anywhere close to as expected. But you would hope there is more to come from Ince, Weimann, Johnson and that the January additions are given a chance to prove their worth too.

The trouble is I see us being in constant flux given our ambitions moving forward and in the long term, I don't see where most of the current signings figure if we want to be an established Premier League club. For me, the time for these levels of investment would have been after promotion.

[Curtains]

23 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

After last season's capitulation, it is fair to say that the squad needed improving in certain areas to get us over the line and promoted this year. But investment to the tune of £25 million? This approach was always going to raise eyebrows. After all, it was an abrupt and not overly necessary change from our previous transfer policy and general prudence, which was starting to pay off under McClaren, and it signalled considerable investment in a squad that had actually been in contention for promotion in the previous two campaigns. Not like say Sheffield Wednesday, where this kind of investment would appear completely warranted to take them to the next level.

To be honest, I can't find too much fault with the players signed in recent times. It's not the calibre of player we are signing that concerns me. For the most part, we are signing players who are proven performers at this level or higher and players that should enable us to achieve our goal and get promoted and hopefully in some cases, push on from there.

It's the prices we are having to pay to secure this calibre of player, which sometimes doesn't sit well with me.

Take Bradley Johnson at £6 million. Without question, he's a good player and he has a good track record in the Championship and higher.  It's also fair to say he's a good fit for us at this time because he has spiced things up and offered qualities we have been missing - the experience, tenacity, aggression, strength and athleticism in midfield.

But would I have paid £6 million for him? No. He is good for the here and now. But he wasn't an essential signing and he hasn't elevated us to the point where we can comfortably say he is value for money. He is not the type of player we are going to build the team around. He is not the type of player who is going to develop further. He is not someone who will command a place in the XI every week should we go up. in my opinion, his best years are behind him and his market value is only likely to decrease.

Compare that to the signing of Shackell, who looks worth every penny. Many baulked at his price tag because he's aging, he won't develop further and we are not likely to see teams bid several million for him in the future. But as soon as it was announced, he was obviously the best signing we were going to make all season. He has been incredibly pivotal since his return and has completely reinvigorated our defence. He is just what we needed for the here and now, but he is also in prime position to be one of the first names on the teamsheet next season, given how well he acquitted himself with Burnley in the Premier League and given the fact he is our best defender by some distance. He is someone who should be a prominent figure moving forward, irrespective of his age.

With Johnson, it's very different. With the likes of Thorne, Hughes, Butterfield, Hendrick and Ince, we have young footballers who are growing in stature week by week and have the talent and potential to step up and perform in the Premier League. When everyone is fit, is Johnson going to be favoured over these players? I doubt it somehow.

Generally speaking though, even though it has come at vast expense, Clement's signings have contributed to some on-the-field success and should it continue and no financial issues arise, it will leave Mel Morris feeling completely vindicated. But even so, it doesn't mean this approach is above questioning because it hasn't yet yielded promotion and we are yet to see if there are any implications financially, either good or bad.

But in a division where there are fine margins and it doesn't necessarily take a great deal of investment or a group of talented individuals to win promotion, apprehension is completely understandable.

Personally, I wouldn't have made such radical changes and I would have stayed true to our more conservative spending habits. Of the big money signings, only really Shackell and Butterfield have delivered anywhere close to as expected. But you would hope there is more to come from Ince, Weimann, Johnson and that the January additions are given a chance to prove their worth too.

The trouble is I see us being in constant flux given our ambitions moving forward and in the long term, I don't see where most of the current signings figure if we want to be an established Premier League club. For me, the time for these levels of investment would have been after promotion.

Only problem with this theory is you don't get promoted in the first place without significant player investment.

Don't you think the people at Derby County  have thought about this .

PS Johnson has been worth every penny for me and is a great addition  

 

 

[Curtains]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3391087/Promised-land-sight-Derby-thanks-super-fan-chairman-Mel-Morris-boss-Paul-Clement-stride-elite.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490