StringerBell Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 6 hours ago, Posh Ram said: I re-watched the prequels and had forgotten quite how bad they were. Just a dull plot, devoid of charismatic characters and the closest thing to humour is the painfully unfunny Jar-Jar Binks. Also way too many puppets/CGI imo, I still want Star Wars to feel like a universe inhabited primarily by humans. The only good bits are Liam Neeson/Ewan McGregor/Samuel L Jackson, the really good lightsaber fight at the end, and the chance to look at Natalie Portman. I do think Ewan McGregor came out of it with his dignity intact, just about. I'd like to see him sign up for an Obiwan film. I'm sure he'd like to right some wrongs, apparently he slagged the prequels off in his autobiography. And apart from the upcoming Trainspotting film I haven't seen him in much lately. I thought Samuel L Jackson gave possibly the worst performance he's ever given, although that was almost certainly Lucas' fault. Even Sam Jackson was reduced to wood. And the lightsabre fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 6 hours ago, Tombo said: Have to say, watched them all again in the last few days in anticipation for the new one. For me the tragedy of the prequels was that Anakin's journey to the dark side was 0-60 in a nanosecond. The end of the Phantom Menace, he's this enthusiastic and talented kid that's gonna bring balance to the force. Attack of the Clones starts up and he's an intolerable ***** that basically does nothing according to Jedi principles. I'd have preferred to have a slower deterioration because there's literally no character progression from the first minute of Attack of the Clones all the way up until the point he joins Darth Sideous in Revenge of the Sith. I realise though that they don't want to make a Jedi that everyone likes, to have him switch alligences like I would have liked to have seen, because he's Darth Vader! You can't like Vader under any circumstances! That's why they use the Imperial March in loads of Anakin scenes to highlight that. It was just too on the nose for me. There's no subtlety about it. Perhaps off topic since this thread is to discuss the new one, but there you go. Something that bugs me. Darth Vader was supposed to be a "good friend" of Obiwan although you'd never know it from the prequels. He should have been likeable as that would have been more tragic. But you're right, he was a brat from the outset. It'd be interesting to see one of the new characters everybody loves fall to the dark side and fight against Kylo Ren after him falling to the light side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 26 minutes ago, StringerBell said: Darth Vader was supposed to be a "good friend" of Obiwan although you'd never know it from the prequels. He should have been likeable as that would have been more tragic. But you're right, he was a brat from the outset. It'd be interesting to see one of the new characters everybody loves fall to the dark side and fight against Kylo Ren after him falling to the light side. I think Kylo Ren is more what i would have expected from Anakin, he is clearly battling with his feelings, Anakin was just a jerk from episode 2, he just got angry, you could see in Kylo Rens face emotion even when being evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 16 minutes ago, Paul71 said: I think Kylo Ren is more what i would have expected from Anakin, he is clearly battling with his feelings, Anakin was just a jerk from episode 2, he just got angry, you could see in Kylo Rens face emotion even when being evil. We never get to see Ren losing his way to begin with as we already join with him as a dark side user but the conflict and real human emotion that Adam Driver displayed shows what Hayden Christensen lacked, although I put the blame for that primarily down to George Lucas. There was a moment he petulantly yells "traitor" which seemed to be a bit of a nod to Anakin yelling "liar" at Obiwan. For me Darth Vader is still the coolest, most cold and calculating baddie there is. They tried to make him more human with the prequels and cocked it up. There's an element of them showing how it should have been done with Kylo Ren. I loved it when Rey basically says he'll never be as good as Darth Vader and it clearly hits a nerve. I'm not quite sure how she knows who Darth Vader is though. Han must have gone into a bit more detail off screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 1 minute ago, StringerBell said: We never get to see Ren losing his way to begin with as we already join with him as a dark side user but the conflict and real human emotion that Adam Driver displayed shows what Hayden Christensen lacked, although I put the blame for that primarily down to George Lucas. There was a moment he petulantly yells "traitor" which seemed to be a bit of a nod to Anakin yelling "liar" at Obiwan. For me Darth Vader is still the coolest, most cold and calculating baddie there is. They tried to make him more human with the prequels and cocked it up. There's an element of them showing how it should have been done with Kylo Ren. I loved it when Rey basically says he'll never be as good as Darth Vader and it clearly hits a nerve. I'm not quite sure how she knows who Darth Vader is though. Han must have gone into a bit more detail off screen. Would like to see the Ben back story, maybe we will or at least in novel form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Just now, Paul71 said: Would like to see the Ben back story, maybe we will or at least in novel form. Oh yeah there's definitely a story for someone to tell there and I've no doubt there'll be a novel about Ben as well as Han and Leia's relationship. They did do something Star Wars has never done before with the vision so maybe there'll be some kind of flashback in the next film. I can't see them doing an entire section of the film set in the past though, that'd be very un-star wars. Having said that, if Harrison Ford is in the next one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 2 minutes ago, StringerBell said: Oh yeah there's definitely a story for someone to tell there and I've no doubt there'll be a novel about Ben as well as Han and Leia's relationship. They did do something Star Wars has never done before with the vision so maybe there'll be some kind of flashback in the next film. I can't see them doing an entire section of the film set in the past though, that'd be very un-star wars. Having said that, if Harrison Ford is in the next one.... True, i think it will be an offically sanctioned novel. With regards to Harrison Ford...we will know soon enough i would think as they start filming in a few weeks, and hey it even appears Ewan McGregor was in this one..albeit a very small voice role. Not sure if this is 100% true but seems to be suggested online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 18 minutes ago, Paul71 said: True, i think it will be an offically sanctioned novel. With regards to Harrison Ford...we will know soon enough i would think as they start filming in a few weeks, and hey it even appears Ewan McGregor was in this one..albeit a very small voice role. Not sure if this is 100% true but seems to be suggested online. Didnt know that. Simon Pegg, Daniel Craig and Carrie Fishers daughter were in it too I think although I wasn't on the lookout for them so didn't spot them. I think Daniel Craig was a storm trooper though so god knows which one. edit - just looked he was the one that let Rey escape haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 7 minutes ago, StringerBell said: Didnt know that. Simon Pegg, Daniel Craig and Carrie Fishers daughter were in it too I think although I wasn't on the lookout for them so didn't spot them. I think Daniel Craig was a storm trooper though so god knows which one. edit - just looked he was the one that let Rey escape haha Yeah seen that myself. All i know is this is the first one for ages i cant wait to see again, i know i watched Phantom menace a few times, but dont think have ever re-watched the other two all the way through even though i have them on dvd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 5 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Yeah seen that myself. All i know is this is the first one for ages i cant wait to see again, i know i watched Phantom menace a few times, but dont think have ever re-watched the other two all the way through even though i have them on dvd. Same here. I want to watch again and I can't wait for Episode 8. Plus it'll be the first one that has people talking about what's going to happen next since Empire Strikes Back I imagine. I can't remember any speculation about the prequels at all. For all the talk of the recycled plot (in many ways this was a remake as much as a reboot, just with different characters and some twists on the formula) I don't think the next one will be as reverential. I don't envy Rian Johnson though. For my money he's got to take Star Wars somewhere new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 39 minutes ago, StringerBell said: Same here. I want to watch again and I can't wait for Episode 8. Plus it'll be the first one that has people talking about what's going to happen next since Empire Strikes Back I imagine. I can't remember any speculation about the prequels at all. For all the talk of the recycled plot (in many ways this was a remake as much as a reboot, just with different characters and some twists on the formula) I don't think the next one will be as reverential. I don't envy Rian Johnson though. For my money he's got to take Star Wars somewhere new. When they first announced them i was only interested in Han, Luke, Leia, but i liked Rey and Finn, Poe, i even liked Kylo Ren even though he seems a bit of a wimp bad guy...i mean he barely beats finn or rey, and only han when hans guard was lowered. Luke is going to be a big part of the next episode but really looking forward to Reys story, cant see how she isnt Lukes child but will be interesting to see. Good thing is we only have to wait to May 2017 for the next one...no 3 year waiting anymore. Anyway i will wait patiently for it to come on Blu Ray. Just to add - i dont know if its a reboot/remake as such in the same way as star trek....its more like Star Wars 90210....bring back the old but focus on the new - Episode 9 will probably be mostly Rey's story with hardly an (if at all) old cast contributing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 1 hour ago, Paul71 said: When they first announced them i was only interested in Han, Luke, Leia, but i liked Rey and Finn, Poe, i even liked Kylo Ren even though he seems a bit of a wimp bad guy...i mean he barely beats finn or rey, and only han when hans guard was lowered. Luke is going to be a big part of the next episode but really looking forward to Reys story, cant see how she isnt Lukes child but will be interesting to see. Good thing is we only have to wait to May 2017 for the next one...no 3 year waiting anymore. Anyway i will wait patiently for it to come on Blu Ray. Just to add - i dont know if its a reboot/remake as such in the same way as star trek....its more like Star Wars 90210....bring back the old but focus on the new - Episode 9 will probably be mostly Rey's story with hardly an (if at all) old cast contributing. It'll be interesting what they do with Ren. So many options. I really liked his much more human character, even if he wasn't as badass as Vader. The fact that he tries to be Vader and fails is one of the clever things the film does in a film full of recycled plot. Rey is another one who is presented as the Luke of the film but has the subtle difference of not being the vessel through which we vicariously experience the events of the film to the same degree Luke was. Instead she has a level of mystery about her that she herself is participating in. At the expense of Ren not being quite as badass as Vader and Rey not being quite as relatable as Luke both characters have a mystery about them that's going to drive the franchise forward. I've heard it suggested on a podcast that Rey could basically be the physical embodiment of the Force. Remember all that about Anakin being a virgin birth? I genuinely don't know where the next film is going. I'm expecting it to be much more personal like Empire Strikes Back, but not by copying the plot. I know The Force Awakens is not a remake in the classic sense of the word, but in many senses it serves the purposes of a remake. It's why I genuinely don't mind its recycling of plot. That's how I'm currently explaining away Death Star 3 anyway. But like I said, I won't be happy if the next one does that. I don't think it will though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssendonRam Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 On 19/12/2015 at 01:48, StivePesley said: Come on man - if you thought the echoing of the original film was anything but deliberate you're a joyless so-and-so. Trying to use it to say that the film lacked originality is surely missing the point I loved it anyway and it made me realise what was missing from the prequels - there was no real suspense or intrigue as to where the story/characters were going. Because we all knew how it ended, those films were really just explanations, and therefore as dissatisfying as they were satisfying With this new one, I was genuinely enthralled from start to finish And yes the dialog was as stilted as ever, but don't forget the whole style of Star Wars started out as a live action version of the comics/serials that George Lucas loved as a kid, so that's why each line of dialog feels like a comic book frame We'll agree to disagree...the first film was a biblical allegory; this film is also an allegory and I'd argue you can easily trace the allegorical elements, 'like for like'. But I'd better have another read of my comment because you seem to have the impression this is a criticism. It isn't. I loved it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssendonRam Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 On 20/12/2015 at 14:13, Tombo said: Have to say, watched them all again in the last few days in anticipation for the new one. For me the tragedy of the prequels was that Anakin's journey to the dark side was 0-60 in a nanosecond. The end of the Phantom Menace, he's this enthusiastic and talented kid that's gonna bring balance to the force. Attack of the Clones starts up and he's an intolerable ***** that basically does nothing according to Jedi principles. I'd have preferred to have a slower deterioration because there's literally no character progression from the first minute of Attack of the Clones all the way up until the point he joins Darth Sideous in Revenge of the Sith. I realise though that they don't want to make a Jedi that everyone likes, to have him switch alligences like I would have liked to have seen, because he's Darth Vader! You can't like Vader under any circumstances! That's why they use the Imperial March in loads of Anakin scenes to highlight that. It was just too on the nose for me. There's no subtlety about it. Perhaps off topic since this thread is to discuss the new one, but there you go. Something that bugs me. Could not agree more! I do defend Revenge of the Sith though; I thought it carried off Anakin's metamorphosis into Vader pretty well. Just - as you say - too quickly. Nor am I one of those who criticises his howling at the end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 On 20/12/2015 at 14:18, StringerBell said: It'll be interesting what they do with Ren. So many options. I really liked his much more human character, even if he wasn't as badass as Vader. The fact that he tries to be Vader and fails is one of the clever things the film does in a film full of recycled plot. Rey is another one who is presented as the Luke of the film but has the subtle difference of not being the vessel through which we vicariously experience the events of the film to the same degree Luke was. Instead she has a level of mystery about her that she herself is participating in. At the expense of Ren not being quite as badass as Vader and Rey not being quite as relatable as Luke both characters have a mystery about them that's going to drive the franchise forward. I've heard it suggested on a podcast that Rey could basically be the physical embodiment of the Force. Remember all that about Anakin being a virgin birth? I genuinely don't know where the next film is going. I'm expecting it to be much more personal like Empire Strikes Back, but not by copying the plot. I know The Force Awakens is not a remake in the classic sense of the word, but in many senses it serves the purposes of a remake. It's why I genuinely don't mind its recycling of plot. That's how I'm currently explaining away Death Star 3 anyway. But like I said, I won't be happy if the next one does that. I don't think it will though. More confirmation Harrison Ford looks like being in EP 8. http://www.moviecastingcall.org/2015/12/star-wars-episode-viii-casting-new-lead-and-supporting-roles.html Really hope if its true its some sort of 'flashback' or 'force ghost', maybe the force was with him afterall but he didnt know it, i dont know. Just hope its not a 'ren recovered his just alive body just before the explosion' scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicME85 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Could barely run in the new film, must be why he was killed, a ghost appearance like Obi Wan would then be easy for the old codger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 1 hour ago, Paul71 said: More confirmation Harrison Ford looks like being in EP 8. http://www.moviecastingcall.org/2015/12/star-wars-episode-viii-casting-new-lead-and-supporting-roles.html Really hope if its true its some sort of 'flashback' or 'force ghost', maybe the force was with him afterall but he didnt know it, i dont know. Just hope its not a 'ren recovered his just alive body just before the explosion' scenario. That's pretty much official then. My money's on him being in some sort of backstory for Ben. Or Rey will have another one of her visions. They do have cloning technology... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 it will be in Lukes telling of the turn of Ben Solo and his attempts at creating a New Jedi Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 8 minutes ago, davenportram said: it will be in Lukes telling of the turn of Ben Solo and his attempts at creating a New Jedi Order. I thought that could be the case. Telling it to Rey specifically, Leia sounds pretty clued up on what happened. But that would mean the next film would have to be the first to start where the last one finished. Unless he's been keeping that secret from Rey and she gets it out of him halfway through the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 No mention of Adam Driver, Domhnall Gleeson or Andy Serkis in that casting blurb. Are they getting a movie off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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