The Finance Thread

[eddie]

8 hours ago, LesterRam said:

So what would be achieved from kicking ones can further down ones road, #voteleave

There is no can

[Stive Pesley]

14 hours ago, SillyBilly said:

Stoking inflation is actually the current policy objective for pretty much the entire Western world

. When you have massive debts, as we do, you need inflation to erode the liabilities and **** on the lender. I can't see spiralling inflation on the short term horizon personally, a moderate rise would actually be a welcome development for the government and economy.

But not for the workers/consumers? The one thing I can guarantee in the event of spiralling inflation is that we won't get pay rises to match. We never do. So prices go up, our wages stay the same and we are poorer as a result. This is going to be tough.

 

[LesterRam]

2 hours ago, StivePesley said:

But not for the workers/consumers? The one thing I can guarantee in the event of spiralling inflation is that we won't get pay rises to match. We never do. So prices go up, our wages stay the same and we are poorer as a result. This is going to be tough.

 

am I missing something?

[Stive Pesley]

Well - I'm generalising but in the past 10 of 12 years with my employer they have had a "pay freeze" - regardless of inflation, so it's technically a pay cut. Most people I speak to that work for medium to large companies have the same exprience.

While inflation is low you just suck it up, but if it started to spiral then it would be very painful. Some people may work for employers who treat them better I realise - but I'd suggest they are in the minority.

If it happens then I might have to go self-employed

[LesterRam]

Just now, StivePesley said:

Well - I'm generalising but in the past 10 of 12 years with my employer they have had a "pay freeze" - regardless of inflation, so it's technically a pay cut. Most people I speak to that work for medium to large companies have the same exprience.

While inflation is low you just suck it up, but if it started to spiral then it would be very painful. Some people may work for employers who treat them better I realise - but I'd suggest they are in the minority.

If it happens then I might have to go self-employed

you see, your voting to stay for what reason, export figures were clearly incorrect, the wages per median were false and all these figures banded about by Quango's mostly on this thread were protecting EU Grants thus lining ones pocket, I just don't want to be associated with this corrupt organisation.

[Stive Pesley]

6 minutes ago, LesterRam said:

you see, your voting to stay for what reason, export figures were clearly incorrect, the wages per median were false and all these figures banded about by Quango's mostly on this thread were protecting EU Grants thus lining ones pocket, I just don't want to be associated with this corrupt organisation.

Not sure I follow - I was just making the point that SB said spiralling inflation is probably the aim (as it will be good for the government) and I was saying it would be bad for people whose employers don't raise wages in line with inflation.

I can't work out what your response has to do with that - I might be being thick

 

[LesterRam]

9 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

Not sure I follow - I was just making the point that SB said spiralling inflation is probably the aim (as it will be good for the government) and I was saying it would be bad for people whose employers don't raise wages in line with inflation.

I can't work out what your response has to do with that - I might be being thick

 

I was responding to your falling wages

Sell Europe to me Stive, what was your thinking behind your decision to remain?

[eddie]

2 hours ago, StivePesley said:

But not for the workers/consumers? The one thing I can guarantee in the event of spiralling inflation is that we won't get pay rises to match. We never do. So prices go up, our wages stay the same and we are poorer as a result. This is going to be tough.

 

What's a pay rise?

I haven't had one for 5 years, and with a year and a half to go until I reach retirement age, I don't see me pushing for one now.

[LesterRam]

1 minute ago, eddie said:

What's a pay rise?

I haven't had one for 5 years, and with a year and a half to go until I reach retirement age, I don't see me pushing for one now.

oh my God, am I writing in Arabic

yeah you and the rest of the bloody Country, and you voted remain for what reason?

[eddie]

13 minutes ago, LesterRam said:

oh my God, am I writing in Arabic

yeah you and the rest of the bloody Country, and you voted remain for what reason?

Terrorist

[LesterRam]

2 minutes ago, eddie said:

Terrorist

racist, I was depressed

[Stive Pesley]

Hang on - you know that this is the Finance thread not the Brexit thread?

I wasn't saying anything about Brexit. I wasn't blaming Brexit for falling wages. I was talking about the lack of pay rises in the last 10-12 years despite moderate inflation.

The only way this thread was related to Brexit was the fiscal measures announced yesterday to try and shore up the economy in the turbulent wake of the referendum.

We were discussing inflation and the pros and cons. Not Brexit related. Are you getting over brexcited?

[LesterRam]

34 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

Hang on - you know that this is the Finance thread not the Brexit thread?

I wasn't saying anything about Brexit. I wasn't blaming Brexit for falling wages. I was talking about the lack of pay rises in the last 10-12 years despite moderate inflation.

The only way this thread was related to Brexit was the fiscal measures announced yesterday to try and shore up the economy in the turbulent wake of the referendum.

We were discussing inflation and the pros and cons. Not Brexit related. Are you getting over brexcited?

yes I know, looking back on previous posts I blamed Brexit for our so called financial situation and we all went on an entertaining transient

I do apologise profusely for merging two threads.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

its still the remain camps fault for lower wages 

[Wolfie]

13 minutes ago, LesterRam said:

yes I know, looking back on previous posts I blamed Brexit for our so called financial situation and we all went on an entertaining transient

I'll be the judge of that.....

[LesterRam]

5 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

I'll be the judge of that.....

it wasn't that bad, could you stop sending them racy private messages, i'm married 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SillyBilly]

11 hours ago, StivePesley said:

But not for the workers/consumers? The one thing I can guarantee in the event of spiralling inflation is that we won't get pay rises to match. We never do. So prices go up, our wages stay the same and we are poorer as a result. This is going to be tough.

 

The system is designed to screw ordinary people over. Our debt based monetary system feeds off moderate inflation so would you rather deflation which would likely crash the entire economy (but would be good for your "spending power")? You'd likely be laid off in that scenario or have your hours cut. The alternative is we have inflation which is a stealth tax, the economy ticks along and you become gradually poorer year-by-year if you don't keep pace. It is not a game you are designed to win. 

At some point I believe the turkeys should vote for christmas so we can scrap the whole perversion. Pain short term but I'd rather that then another few decades of what we've had for the last 10 years.

[SillyBilly]

9 hours ago, StivePesley said:

Not sure I follow - I was just making the point that SB said spiralling inflation is probably the aim (as it will be good for the government) and I was saying it would be bad for people whose employers don't raise wages in line with inflation.

I can't work out what your response has to do with that - I might be being thick

 

Not spiralling inflation, central banks have what they call the "goldilocks zone", generally between 2-3% inflation. Below that and you risk deflation which has to be avoided at costs, above that and you risk losing control of inflation and confidence in the "system". We teeter on the knife edge of control.

Mainstream economic thought is you can control inflation in an economy like a thermostat controls temperature in a room, by increasing or lowering the base rate. Lowering rates leads to more borrowing (which adds to the "money supply" in the economy), this spending with "new money" chases the same goods and services which pushes their prices up. And vice versa. Except the central bank models of cause and effect are increasingly total ******** (can explain in another post another time) so it doesn't work like this! So, now that the thermostat is broken they have taken to trying to support inflation and growth by printing money as well...QE. It was hoped some of this currency would find its way into the conventional economy but ofcourse the real economy has barely noticed the massive stimulus, most people aren't in the market for prime London real estate, art, classic cars, stocks etc. And even then most of this printed currency is still on the central bank's and commerical banks balance sheets. So they print more currency to get even a slither of effect into the real economy (despite the fact they know its flawed and most of the currency gets added to the wealth of those who already own the assets). And so on. So we're effectively sitting on an "inflation timebomb" within a "normal economy" which wants to deflate due to reduced ability to take on more debt (two opposing forces),  we have literally trillions of "locked down" currency around the world, it is hiding on balance sheets but it exists, who knows if it will ever make its way into the economy but if it did it'd be a bow wave of inflation. There is panic behind those sharp suits, polished press conferences etc.

[LesterRam]

Around 1.6 million families in the UK are living with "extreme problem debt", according to a report released by the TUC and Unison.

They say that's due to a drop in wages with millions paying out more than 40% of their income on repayments.

Between 2012-2015 total unsecured debt went from £48bn to £353bn, not including mortgages.

Joseph Surtees from the debt advice charity Step Change says "more people are struggling with lower level loans".

He said: "They're really struggling with pay day loans or even owing money to their landlords or utility companies."

The report, Britain In The Red, says around 3.2 million households are in "problem debt" in total and pay more than quarter of their income on debt repayments.

Of the 1.6 million in "extreme problem debt", 1.2 million people have a household income below £30,000.

Sunny Johnson, 20, from Wolverhampton told Newsbeat he found himself in debt after taking out a payday loan on impulse.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/37164267/more-than-15-million-families-are-in-extreme-debt-according-to-a-tuc-report

 

[ketteringram]

All at a time of historically low rates. 

[Phoenix]

Extreme debt. I saw an article earlier today which said that in Spain, everyone owes more than the value of a new Merc.

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/701881/Fears-over-Spain-s-crippling-debts-as-every-person-owes-more-than-value-of-a-new-Merc