Richard Keogh

[Srg]

Nope, team possession stats are often meaningless rubbish. @Ambitious was providing individual player stats that are actually pretty useful, especially in this case to reject your ridiculous allegation of Keogh giving the ball away loads. 

No offence, but are you really so stupid that you can't see the difference between the crude stats you put above and the advanced stats you just saw on centre-halves in possession? 

It isn't useful though as what's being asked of the players is completely different.

We don't ask our defenders to punt it and lose possession.

[eddie]

Nope, team possession stats are often meaningless rubbish. @Ambitious was providing individual player stats that are actually pretty useful, especially in this case to reject your ridiculous allegation of Keogh giving the ball away loads. 

No offence, but are you really so stupid that you can't see the difference between the crude stats you put above and the advanced stats you just saw on centre-halves in possession? 

Very wise under the circumstances.

I mean, I think he's an obvious troll with his head so far up his own arris that his own crap has blinded him to anybody else's opinions, but there's no way that I would ever say that on a forum.

Oh, wait…..

[Posh Ram]

It isn't useful though as what's being asked of the players is completely different.

We don't ask our defenders to punt it and lose possession.

Yeah, true, but those stats were useful in that they factually proved that the statement 

"He does give the ball away too often [defenders should be able to pass the ball acurately], does get caught in possession too often, he can and is a liability and the problem is, it does rub off onto those around him."

was a whole load of horseshit

 

[cheron85]

Yeah, stats don't you just love em,

Against Reading, we had 63%  possession - we all know what happened

Against Millwall we had 56%  possession - we all know what happened

Against Huddlesfield we had 56%  possession - we all know what happened

Against Wolves we had 60% possession - we all know what happened

Against Boro we had 59% possession - we all know what happened

Stats, yes meaningless rubbish.

 

@Posh Ram and @Ambitious I think this guys might be a bit mental... You should probably just leave him to his ramblings and find a nice safe, secure padded thread to stick all his posts...

[Alph]

Yeah, stats don't you just love em,

Against Reading, we had 63%  possession - we all know what happened

Against Millwall we had 56%  possession - we all know what happened

Against Huddlesfield we had 56%  possession - we all know what happened

Against Wolves we had 60% possession - we all know what happened

Against Boro we had 59% possession - we all know what happened

Stats, yes meaningless rubbish.

 

Derby lost. Not Keogh

[tomsdubs]

What does overall team possession have to do with individual defender player stats? What is this guy on? The only thing the possession stat proves is that we were aimless and devoid of confidence to go forward and make clear cut chances. When we didn't score players got nervous and we made mistakes.

[Ramble On]

After what happened at Wembley I was seething with the back four and lost all confidence in them, not just Keogh but Buxton and Fozzy. Them three as a combination won't get us out of this league simple as.

I still say his best game, where people I thought around me enjoyed him most was at RB. He got to do those darting runs and put crosses in that's what he likes to do and is good at, exactly what he used to do at Cov (and more convincingly than Christie IMO). I'd see him slot into RB for the team every week or next to Shack in the centre,

I rate Shack a lot higher than Keogh, not just for RK's calamitous moments but he is steady and a good old fashioned professional centre back with experience and better captain qualities, too many times Keogh is about the back four like a cat on a hot tin roof.

My preferred selection is he stays, providing he's at RB and we can bring Shackell in to partner Pearce in the middle using Baird as either holding midfield or filling in wherever over the back 4.

[SaintRam]

After what happened at Wembley I was seething with the back four and lost all confidence in them, not just Keogh but Buxton and Fozzy. Them three as a combination won't get us out of this league simple as.

I still say his best game, where people I thought around me enjoyed him most was at RB. He got to do those darting runs and put crosses in that's what he likes to do and is good at, exactly what he used to do at Cov (and more convincingly than Christie IMO). I'd see him slot into RB for the team every week or next to Shackle in the centre,

I rate Shack a lot higher than Keogh, not just for RK's calamitous moments but he is steady and a good old fashioned professional centre back with experience and better captain qualities, too many times Keogh is about the back four like a cat on a hot tin roof.

My preferred selection is he stays, providing he's at RB and we can bring Shackell in to partner Pearce in the middle using Baird as either holding midfield or filling in wherever over the back 4.

Pearce and Shackell together wouldn't do too well imo, Pearce and Shackell share the same strength and weakness categories. The difference being Pearce's strengths aren't as high as Shackell's

[cloughandtaylor]

What does overall team possession have to do with individual defender player stats? What is this guy on? The only thing the possession stat proves is that we were aimless and devoid of confidence to go forward and make clear cut chances. When we didn't score players got nervous and we made mistakes.

Proving stats are meaningless.

If those of you think Keogh is a fantastic CB, what did you think of MacKay/MacFarland /Todd/ Mark Wright/Stimac/Paul McGrath.......these are real CB's who read a game, who could marshal a defence,who could play with their heads as well as there feet!

I haven't even mentioned how Keogh goes missing at set pieces, the number of goals we conceded at set pieces because he could not mark up an opponent, I could be wrong was it Keogh who tried to tackle, drop to the fall yet again underneath Grant which he then then punched the ball into our own net in The Wolves game?

The amount of goals we conceded because of poor defending last season was shocking, as captain he shouild lead by example - we took loads of injuries from March onwards, yes there were some changing of players in defence, but shouldn't Keogh as captain lead by example?

Keogh running around like a headless chicken certainly did not help younger squad players, defensively we went missing for 10 of the last 11 games!

[SaintRam]

Proving stats are meaningless.

If those of you think Keogh is a fantastic CB, what did you think of MacKay/MacFarland /Todd/ Mark Wright/Stimac/Paul McGrath.......

I haven't even mentioned how Keogh goes missing at set pieces, the number of goals we conceded at set pieces because he could not mark up an opponent, I could be wrong was it Keogh who tried to tackle, drop to the fall yet again underneath Grant which he then then punched the ball into our own net in The Wolves game?

The amount of goals we conceded because of poor defending last season was shocking, as captain he shouild lead by example - we took loads of injuries from March onwards, yes there were some changing of players in defence, but shouldn't Keogh as captain lead by example?

Keogh running around like a headless chicken certainly did not help younger squad players, defensively we went missing for 10 of the last 11 games!

All of those CB's you mentioned are greats. Keogh is great... IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP. You can't compare a championship defender to one who gets into peoples all time XI (while playing at the highest level) and then scoff at him when he comes out below them.

"Yes your cat is nice, but it's not a lion so what's the point."

[cloughandtaylor]

All of those CB's you mentioned are greats. Keogh is great... IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP. You can't compare a championship defender to one who gets into peoples all time XI (while playing at the highest level) and then scoff at him when he comes out below them.

"Yes your cat is nice, but it's not a lion so what's the point."

My point is he is not a very good CB - even at our level, last season does prove this.

The bloke is a liability at the back!

[SaintRam]

My point is he is not a very good CB - even at our level, last season does prove this.

The bloke is a liability at the back!

Last year? The year that he got into the championship team of the year? that PROVES he's not good at this level? 

Do you live in a brewery?

[AmberRamber]

It seems as though our captain divides opinion from either end of the 'he's good.....he's garbage' spectrum.

However if the speculation around him is to believed the list of admirers is not to be sniffed at.

Tony Pulis

Dick Advocaat

St.....st....can't say his name...our former manager.

Plus Mr O'Neil who selects him on a regular basis for the national side. Although I will say his pool of centre halves is of a lesser depth to pick from due to eligibility. 

 

[Alph]

Proving stats are meaningless.

If those of you think Keogh is a fantastic CB, what did you think of MacKay/MacFarland /Todd/ Mark Wright/Stimac/Paul McGrath.......these are real CB's who read a game, who could marshal a defence,who could play with their heads as well as there feet!

I haven't even mentioned how Keogh goes missing at set pieces, the number of goals we conceded at set pieces because he could not mark up an opponent, I could be wrong was it Keogh who tried to tackle, drop to the fall yet again underneath Grant which he then then punched the ball into our own net in The Wolves game?

The amount of goals we conceded because of poor defending last season was shocking, as captain he shouild lead by example - we took loads of injuries from March onwards, yes there were some changing of players in defence, but shouldn't Keogh as captain lead by example?

Keogh running around like a headless chicken certainly did not help younger squad players, defensively we went missing for 10 of the last 11 games!

It's not Keogh's fault that Grant punched the ball into his own net. Neither are all goals from set pieces. The last set piece I saw go in was when Ryan Shotton did some sort of karate kick and missed the ball by a month. 

Instead of comparing him to players who are legends it would make more sense if you compared him to Leacock, Nyatanga, Anderson, Barker etc. Or other CB's in this league. 

Or even to Albentosa, Shotton, Whitbread, Buxton. 

I'm interested to know if you're one of those who rated Mark O'Brien?

[cloughandtaylor]

Last year? The year that he got into the championship team of the year? that PROVES he's not good at this level? 

Do you live in a brewery?

Who said last year?

I said last season!!!!!!!!

And Bamford was player of the year, give your head a shake!

[SaintRam]

Who said last year?

I said last season!!!!!!!!

And Bamford was player of the year, give your head a shake!

Nothing to say.

[TelTheRam]

MSP you are a genius. Ince will be a l INCE pin (linchpin) of our team.  Keogh? He's alright, but anyone good at last ditch tackles in my view wasn't doing the right things at the right times earlier.

alternatively, other players were not doing the right  things at the right times earlier.

Keogh was ok with bucko because he trusts him to do his job, same with Whitbread I think.

Unfortunately, I think he was having to cover for Christie and Shotton a lot of the time in the latter part of the season.

As for Albentosa - just looks a big clumsy lump to me, but I'll reserve final judgement until I've seen more of him in his preferred position.

its funny that people criticise Bucko for being a head it and kick it defender (even though he's one of the best passers in the team) but then use those no-nonsense attributes to defend Albentosa.

 

mind you, if someone offered £4m for any of our defenders I'd take it.

[cloughandtaylor]

It's not Keogh's fault that Grant punched the ball into his own net. Neither are all goals from set pieces. The last set piece I saw go in was when Ryan Shotton did some sort of karate kick and missed the ball by a month. 

Instead of comparing him to players who are legends it would make more sense if you compared him to Leacock, Nyatanga, Anderson, Barker etc. Or other CB's in this league. 

Or even to Albentosa, Shotton, Whitbread, Buxton. 

I'm interested to know if you're one of those who rated Mark O'Brien?

Yes SB was a leader and at this level.

So was Stimac - remember he took us up!

[Alph]

Yes SB was a leader and at this level.

So was Stimac - remember he took us up!

Stimac is another legend.

By comparing Keogh to these people it's actually a compliment. I wouldn't dream of comparing Sammon to Wanchope or Mason Bennett to Hector.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Yeah, stats don't you just love em,

Against Reading, we had 63%  possession - we all know what happened

Against Millwall we had 56%  possession - we all know what happened

Against Huddlesfield we had 56%  possession - we all know what happened

Against Wolves we had 60% possession - we all know what happened

Against Boro we had 59% possession - we all know what happened

Stats, yes meaningless rubbish.

 

The only meaningless rubbish seems to be your opinion of Richard Keogh.