Curtains Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 It doesn't have to be either or!! Clough did a sound job starting from a difficult base. McClaren has come in and taken the role on from a much healthier place and improved the team further. Both have their faults, both have their positives. Both seem to receive a lot of respect from the players under them and that is the most important thing to them, certainly not what a bunch of halfwits write on here or shout out from the crowd.So what were Nigel's positives . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLACML Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Did you really need to start another thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 I'm not at all dismissive of McClaren's coaching - I have no idea where you got that from. I'm just not scared to say that he has his faults, as does every manager and even me. He's done a great job here and I'd be gutted to see him leave, but I don't doubt that we could bring in somebody better. It has nothing to do with Clough's rating or otherwise. I just think Clough was under-valued by some. You've seen it yourself, though, some Derby fans even want McClaren out for not finishing in the automatic promotion places so who actually stands a chance here? It's human nature to want more. I'd argue that if McClaren had us in 13th position in the Championship next Christmas that the majority would be calling for his head. So you didn't say McClaren couldn't organise his defensive set up then . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 Did you really need to start another thread?I rate McClaren and would like him to stay but I wasn't sorry to see Nigel leave and thats my opinion .Rush wanted to move forward and we have done IMO that's why all this Newcastle stuff is soul destroying.The reason I started this thread is to try and put some perspective in to all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I'm not at all dismissive of McClaren's coaching - I have no idea where you got that from. I'm just not scared to say that he has his faults, as does every manager and even me. He's done a great job here and I'd be gutted to see him leave, but I don't doubt that we could bring in somebody better. It has nothing to do with Clough's rating or otherwise. I just think Clough was under-valued by some. You've seen it yourself, though, some Derby fans even want McClaren out for not finishing in the automatic promotion places so who actually stands a chance here? It's human nature to want more. I'd argue that if McClaren had us in 13th position in the Championship next Christmas that the majority would be calling for his head. Id like to know who we could bring in that is better ?Given that to bring them in, they would have to want to come in the first instance, if be surprised if you could name many people out of work that have a proven pedigree if this league.Paul clement ? Show me anything on his cv that says he is better than SM, Warburton ? Possibly but hasn't been managing for more than a couple of years, redknapp maybe ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB BIGGS Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Did you really need to start another thread? We haven't had one for days. Much overdue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Id like to know who we could bring in that is better ?Given that to bring them in, they would have to want to come in the first instance, if be surprised if you could name many people out of work that have a proven pedigree if this league.Paul clement ? Show me anything on his cv that says he is better than SM, Warburton ? Possibly but hasn't been managing for more than a couple of years, redknapp maybe ;-)If football has taught us anything, it's that a pedigree of a manager prior to stepping through the door is about as much of a barometer as how good lookin' your ex is compared to what you can pull. So, so many managers have gone from hero to zero over the past few years that it's hard to keep track.Ian Holloway produced what could only be described as a miracle with Blackpool, now he'd struggle to get a job in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 If football has taught us anything, it's that a pedigree of a manager prior to stepping through the door is about as much of a barometer as how good lookin' your ex is compared to what you can pull. So, so many managers have gone from hero to zero over the past few years that it's hard to keep track.Ian Holloway produced what could only be described as a miracle with Blackpool, now he'd struggle to get a job in the Championship.Nice analogy, but are you therefore not agreeing that whilst we may get a manager that is better, the underlying risk is that we could also end up with someone who is not.With mclaren we have a manager who has got us to Wembley and fingers crossed in his first full season get us in the play offs again, you said we could bring in someone who is better than him, if it's that easy surely one name shouldn't be that difficult ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Oh look, another Clough debate.Why?We've never debated any other managers with quite as much fervour. It's in the past, 'kin leave it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 Oh look, another Clough debate.Why?We've never debated any other managers with quite as much fervour. It's in the past, 'kin leave it there.We could have another Newcastle thread in the new Newcastle section ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 Nice analogy, but are you therefore not agreeing that whilst we may get a manager that is better, the underlying risk is that we could also end up with someone who is not.With mclaren we have a manager who has got us to Wembley and fingers crossed in his first full season get us in the play offs again, you said we could bring in someone who is better than him, if it's that easy surely one name shouldn't be that difficult ?Another thing that comes up over and over is we rescued McClaren from obscurity with his track record which I profoundly disagree with as i think it's a massive bonus getting him at Derby with Simpson and Steele It could be argued Derby gave Nigel his big chance in Football Management though taking him from Burton . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Another thing that comes up over and over is we rescued McClaren from obscurity with his track record which I profoundly disagree with as i think it's a massive bonus getting him at Derby with Simpson and Steele It could be argued Derby gave Nigel his big chance in Football Management though taking him from Burton .I can see valid points around the argument given SM had failed in his previous jobs, but highlights to me that him going would result in a greater risk of us not continuing the success we have had over the past two seasons.sometimes a manager can come in and turn the fortunes around quickly, which SM has done, but it's a lot harder maintaining this as a successful side as the bar is set higher, Rodgers at Liverpool being an example of someone who raised the bar and is now being considered a failure just one season after doing this. Man Utd under CM is another, where he was always going to be the fall guy for the genius that Fergie was, when getting a team to perform to a higher standard than there playing abilities.The Clough argument is irrelevant, you can argue the success and failures of his tenure until the cows come home, and is pointless as he left nearly 2 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 and as we are discovering on a daily/houry basis....some of our fans are ******. If our fans were dogs…... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 Mac did say as he pointed his arms out and put his hands into a point that all he's focused on at the moment is Millwall .Then it will be focus on the playoffs and Wembley and winning this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 If our fans were dogs…...That's harsh. On the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 How can the guy be overrated when you'd be hard pushed to find a single Derby fan who doesn't feel his sacking was either justified or at the very least understandable?Acknowledging the good foundations he put in place at the club is hardly stretching the truth. It's evidenced in the quality of our squad, our academy and our accounts sheet.I have no doubt that Clough's Derby would've continued to improve steadily year upon year. In my mind there's two main reasons he got sacked;1 - Dwindling Attendances. Progress under Clough was at times, very slow, and looking at the crowd figures towards the end of his reign 30% of our fans had had enough. Building a good team is great, but the jobs only half done. You sometimes need to let those guys off the leash and let them play.2 - Conor Sammon. Sammon isn't a terrible player, but his failure was proof to the board that maybe Clough wasn't the right person to handle the club as the investment was ramped up. Sammon was Clough's biggest ever outlay on big wages and it didn't work. It was really surprising that this transfer tripped him up. Clough was always so stubborn when it came to transfer fees and all of the sudden he decides to stick his neck out by paying treble the price Wigan did for a guy who'd scored once in the entire previous season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Wow this is actually a real thread. I thought it was part of the Newcastle joking about. Why bring this up at this stage of the season? Save it until the Summer of you really have too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 Wow this is actually a real thread. I thought it was part of the Newcastle joking about. Why bring this up at this stage of the season? Save it until the Summer of you really have too.What **** is this it's serious Nigel only got the job at Derby because of what ! I'll bring it up when I like just as all this **** is brought up about Mac and Newcastle is .We're all Derby fans I thought and it's the club DCFC I support and have supported all my life.Come on you Rams tomorrow at Millwall lets beat um and reach the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEL Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Dear oh dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 If our fans were dogs…...You'd throw a stick and they'd moan they have to fetch it. If you fetched it they'd moan that you don't let them fetch it. If you left the stick at home they'd moan that you didn't bring the stick. If you brought the stick but didn't throw it they'd moan that you're wasting the stick. If the stick threw and fetched itself it would be booed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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