Black Managers in Football - Rooney Rule

[Alph]

Was he white when QPR gave him the job?

This makes a mockery of those that have to suffer racism.

The reason Ramsey will struggle to get work is because he's apparently rubbish. He's come out and said that to try and "be proved wrong" sort of thing.

The only way he'll get a job at the top level is because he is black now.

knob. 

[Day]

P7 W1 D0 L6 F7 A12 

Yet the reason he won't get another job is skin colour, jeez

 

[Tombo]

Was he white when QPR gave him the job?

This makes a mockery of those that have to suffer racism.

The reason Ramsey will struggle to get work is because he's apparently rubbish. He's come out and said that to try and "be proved wrong" sort of thing.

The only way he'll get a job at the top level is because he is black now.

knob. 

[Dimmu]

Should've kept his mouth shut.

TBF the situation he took the job was abysmal. Even 'I'd struggled to keep Rangers in PL. Not because I'm white tho, just because the team is sausage.

[Bris Vegas]

I think he's right.

He will struggle to get another top job because a number of owners in English football are racist and would rather take the riskier option of hiring white managers than hiring fantastic black managers such as Chris Ramsey, Michael Johnson and Clarke Carlisle.

It doesn't make sense. I mean as an owner, you would surely have your best interests in earning money, being successful and providing for your family. So why they are ignoring these black managers who are clearly better than fellow white candidates I'm just not sure.

It can only be racist right?

There are a number of problems with English football, and racism is defintiely up there with the lot. Look at how many black managers we have in English football. I can count them on one hand - or two.

Why? Simple, owners don't want them. Everytime a job becomes available, the ratio of applicants is probably something like 100 white people to one black person - and 99% of the time it goes to the white applicant. That's racist.

 

 

[Tombo]

I think he's right.

He will struggle to get another top job because a number of owners in English football are racist and would rather take the riskier option of hiring white managers than hiring fantastic black managers such as Chris Ramsey, Michael Johnson and Clarke Carlisle.

It doesn't make sense. I mean as an owner, you would surely have your best interests in earning money, being successful and providing for your family. So why they are ignoring these black managers who are clearly better than fellow white candidates I'm just not sure.

It can only be racist right?

There are a number of problems with English football, and racism is defintiely up there with the lot. Look at how many black managers we have in English football. I can count them on one hand - or two.

Why? Simple, owners don't want them. Everytime a job becomes available, the ratio of applicants is probably something like 100 white people to one black person - and 99% of the time it goes to the white applicant. That's racist.

 

 

[Rev]

Can't see the problem with the Rooney rule tbh, at least gets the candidate in front of the hirer, their choice whether to hire them or not, but gives a chance to someone whom otherwise might have had none.

[Tombo]

Can't see the problem with the Rooney rule tbh, at least gets the candidate in front of the hirer, their choice whether to hire them or not, but gives a chance to someone whom otherwise might have had none.

[Anon]

Can't see the problem with the Rooney rule tbh, at least gets the candidate in front of the hirer, their choice whether to hire them or not, but gives a chance to someone whom otherwise might have had none.

[AmericanRam]

Being first adopted in the NFL,I,as tons of others, fans of the league here in the States were quite curious as to how the Rooney Rule would really change the nature of hiring decisions.

Their are now way more black coaches in the NFL than in times past,but of course you have the groups with their own agenda that says NFL and to a smaller extent other professional leagues in the US (NBA,etc) still do not interview as many candidates as they think they 'should'. Ridicoulous.

The rule shines badly on owners if they do not hire a black candidate after interviewing,or hire a white candidate that the aforementioned groups feel was not the better candidate.Owners in the NFL have to be on their toes very much in regards to this rule and hiring policies/processes.

Best candidate should always get the job,and if they are black great,but if not,then that is just the way it is.

I just think it is not right in the sense that owners are required as it were to interview a black candidate,especially if they want someone with certain skills and whatnot that the black candidate does not have.

If a black candidate is good enough and has the right stuff for the job,he will get his chance.

Rooney Rule imo has made racism a bigger issue in States at times,rather than helping it as if black candidates who are reported to have not gotten a job they interviewed for,owners have been labeled racist by some on social media,etc.

Smart people understand that no racism,just simply black candidate not good enough.But will always be those people who look at the negativity associated with things.

[Rev]

@Tombo, @AmericanRam whilst I see your point, think you're possibly guilty of seeing the world as you'd like it to be be, rather than what it it is. Tombo I can understand, 20 yrs ago I'd have shared your view of positive discrimination, unfortunately 20 more years of experience has shown me life's not so simple as a level playing field for all( man I feel old typing that!).

@AmericanRam, similar point to Tombo, how else do you explain the proportion of black coaches rising from 6% to 22% since the introduction of the Rooney rule?( source Wikipedia). Surely teams aren't recruiting Black coaches as a pr exercise, regardless of results? 

Finally to @Anon, thanks for the stats, hadn't read them before and so will agree you make a valid point, sometimes perception doesn't match reality, but it does feel minorities are under represented at the top level.

[AmericanRam]

@Tombo, @AmericanRam whilst I see your point, think you're possibly guilty of seeing the world as you'd like it to be be, rather than what it it is. Tombo I can understand, 20 yrs ago I'd have shared your view of positive discrimination, unfortunately 20 more years of experience has shown me life's not so simple as a level playing field for all( man I feel old typing that!).

@AmericanRam, similar point to Tombo, how else do you explain the proportion of black coaches rising from 6% to 22% since the introduction of the Rooney rule?( source Wikipedia). Surely teams aren't recruiting Black coaches as a pr exercise, regardless of results? 

Finally to @Anon, thanks for the stats, hadn't read them before and so will agree you make a valid point, sometimes perception doesn't match reality, but it does feel minorities are under represented at the top level.

[Rev]

Fair point rev, and oh yeah I know that number of black coaches in the NFL has grown since the rule was adopted and of course that is a good thing, I am not questioning that. It is just that some groups here in the States still cry racism if a black candidate who was reported to be hired is not selected but a white candidate is, regardless if white candidate is tons more qualified.

Will it get passed in England? Honestly no clue, but if it did, how do you think most would react mate?

[AmericanRam]

No idea mate, as @Anon points out it seems fairly representative of the proportion of black coaches over here, but we all like to think everything is rosy in our own garden don't we?

That we do mate, that we do. 

[Dimmu]

No idea mate, as @Anon points out it seems fairly representative of the proportion of black coaches over here, but we all like to think everything is rosy in our own garden don't we?

[Anon]

So the BBC devoted yet another article to this subject today, http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31970841. I thought I'd have a look and see what logical fallacies they're pushing this time. It's actually much more in depth than other recent articles and presents some interesting data. I was really pleased to see updated figures on the number of BAME* coaches sitting their qualifications. The figures show that between 2011-2014 13% of the coaches taking the A licence (the one you need to manage in the football league) were BAME*.

That makes the current number of black managers in the league (6 out of 92) seem unrepresentative, but don't forget that this the percentage of coaches sitting qualifications in the last three years, not the total qualified number. What it does suggest is that the effort to get more BAME* coaches in the game is working and we should see the number managing in the league rise steadily over the coming years.

One thing that did pique my interest was the following paragraph;

"The Coach bursary programme,   backed and facilitated by the FA, Premier League, Professional Footballers' Association and League Managers' Association, is helping achieve that goal.

Now in its third year, it has funded 90% of coaching course fees for more than 100 male and female coaches from BAME backgrounds.

In 2011, its inception year, 45 bursaries were offered. By 2015, that number had risen to 75. The FA expects the upward trend to continue.

At least 10 candidates from year one of the scheme have secured roles at academies, centres of excellence and Premier League clubs."

So, you can get a bursary from the FA based solely on the colour of your skin. Why? I thought the agenda being pushed was that BAME* managers were being denied jobs due to closet racism, not that they are all too poor to afford the course fees. This is absolute sausage. It's discrimination, plain and simple.

 

*BAME = Black, Asian, and Minority Ethnic. In truth, I detest this clumsy pc acronym, but it's what the BBC use so it's what I'm going with. After all, I wouldn't want alienate the multitudinous number of Chinese and Inuit coaches that are obviously knocking about.

 

One last thing. I wanted to address this quote from Brendon Batson, "If you can't see anyone who looks like you, why would you invest in yourself," I can't fathom how some people can be so obsessed with race. I've always played left back and when was growing up I wanted to be like Chris Powell. It never once occurred to me that I ought to find a more realistic role model because Powell had different colour skin to me.