StringerBell Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Keoghs hand ball doesn't come much clearer. At the time I felt the ref was trying to even things out. The handball where it was blasted at him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 what is it with the Warnock dislike? He has played one half a game and was a bit off the pace and made a late tackle both or at least one of the bookings were border line. give him some time i'm sure he'll be an asset for us. FTFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Interesting thread started by Leemark, who has form for being a WUM. Then you have the the extreme thoughts of B4 and Needles. I am very disappointed we lost yesterday, but these things happen and he was big enough to put his hand up on Twitter. Just glad it wasn't Keogh or Buxton. Otherwise we would have had the Keogh Haters or Buxton Lovers on here repeating the same old lines ad nauseum. Glad we have bought some new players to energise this forum. Did anyone boo Warnock? Hope so. He's not really on of ours you know. Good post. But it was McClaren's oversight really. He should have pulled Warnock aside before the game: MAC: Stephen, you played for Leeds right. Warnock: Yes gaffer MAC: Are you proud of what you did at Leeds, Stephen? Warnock: Oh yes gaffer MAC: Well, son, you can throw all of that in the dustbin, because you've done it all by cheating. Go out there today and play like Derby play, keep the ball on the floor, move the ball quickly, play like Forsyth, be a clever fox, and don't pull a Norman Hunter off and bite the legs off your opponent for Will's sake. At Derby we don't play like that, and the moment i see you go hard or get a yellow, you're coming off. We have to suck the Leeds out of your soul. Warnock: Yes gaffer. Problem sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smyth_18 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Yes but for me i will never ever forgive him and do hope he never plays again. Jesus Christ. He hasn't murdered your family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Jesus Christ. He hasn't murdered your family. He's murdered b4's dreams of winning the FA Cup, as well as his family's dreams. With one mis-step, he's de facto murdered all b4's family's hopes and dreams, and that's not that far from saying he murdered his family is it? Wake up Smythy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 The handball where it was blasted at him? Yes because he deliberately put his hands into an unnatural position where they were likely to block the ball. He does it all the time and gets away with it but it's handball. If his arms were down by his side, then it wouldn't be but they were not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Possibly. He was an absolute plonker. Five yellow cards in the first 41 minutes of a match that wasn't even remotely dirty. Mascarell booked for his first foul after 8 minutes this probably forced his eventual substitution. In the second half he had to stop booking players for half an hour or it would have ended up as 8 v 9 Then when it was safe again he waved a couple more pointless yellow cards. If he'd given the handball he'd have had to send keogh off. He also seemed to ignore a bryson handball in the box. He over ruled the linesman to give us a throw when it had clearly come off christie. He just had to be noticed. Normally i don't pay too much attention to the ref. On this occasion the bloke next to me actually predicted beforehand that he would send someone off given his record this season. I didn't disagree with too many of the bookings though. Mascarell lost the ball, the player was breaking away and Omar deliberately rugby tackled him to the floor. It's a yellow - the problem was that because that happened early, it dictated that other challenges that were slightly over the top had to be yellows. Warnocks fouls were both yellow for me, and when watching them back later, definitely yellows. However, in the second half is where I felt he wanted to be the centre of attention more. Just let the game flow as best as you can, and he didn't do that. Similar story with many Prem refs who come down, they just want to be noticed more. Disagree that Keogh would have been sent off it had been given as a yellow. Because the goal keeper is behind him, along with defenders, that scenario happens a lot and only ever gets a yellow. Does it deny a clear goal scoring chance - you could argue a shot on goal is a clear goal scoring opportunity but at the same time, the referee has no idea where the ball is going, if it's even on or off topic, and the chance of it going in is very small, hence why the yellow is the get out of jail option. Just a disappointing day but I'm over it. The league is more important, Tuesday night is more important and we just need to hope B4 hasn't killed anyone yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Yes because he deliberately put his hands into an unnatural position where they were likely to block the ball. He does it all the time and gets away with it but it's handball. If his arms were down by his side, then it wouldn't be but they were not. Wasn't he stretching? In which case his hands were in an entirely natural position. How would you do what he did with your hands by your side? If we're gonna say that's handball then we're basically outlawing last ditch blocks. I think there's a better case for outlawing overhead kicks for being dangerous to be honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Omar wasn't pulled because he was on a yellow, it was because we needed a left back and he was the most expendable player/position. Good to see its not just the fans that make Omar a scapegoat, the management do too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Stringer - no issue with us disagreeing over the interpretation. I don't disagree with you that in the he position his body was in the arms are in a natural position, however with the ways the rules are interpreted these days, the officials make a point that the arms can be infront of your face or by the sides of you. They cannot be stretched out anywhere. So blocking is fine, but blocking with how Keogh does it is a different matter. If this was dcfc attacking and an opposing player blocked a shot like this, I would definitely want a penalty. Omar was one more foul from being sent off so common sense to take him off. I thought he was lucky when he seemed to impede someone who was chasing a long ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I didn't disagree with too many of the bookings though. Mascarell lost the ball, the player was breaking away and Omar deliberately rugby tackled him to the floor. It's a yellow - the problem was that because that happened early, it dictated that other challenges that were slightly over the top had to be yellows. Warnocks fouls were both yellow for me, and when watching them back later, definitely yellows. However, in the second half is where I felt he wanted to be the centre of attention more. Just let the game flow as best as you can, and he didn't do that. Similar story with many Prem refs who come down, they just want to be noticed more. Disagree that Keogh would have been sent off it had been given as a yellow. Because the goal keeper is behind him, along with defenders, that scenario happens a lot and only ever gets a yellow. Does it deny a clear goal scoring chance - you could argue a shot on goal is a clear goal scoring opportunity but at the same time, the referee has no idea where the ball is going, if it's even on or off topic, and the chance of it going in is very small, hence why the yellow is the get out of jail option. Just a disappointing day but I'm over it. The league is more important, Tuesday night is more important and we just need to hope B4 hasn't killed anyone yet. If those fouls are immediate yellow cards - rather than a ticking off or a warning - then we might as well go and watch netball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 The best full bloodied 50:50 i ever saw was at bramhall lane. Chris morgan was tearing towards a loose ball. Adam bolder was also going for it. They were like two freight trains heading towards a head on collision. By Morgan's demeanour you could tell he wasn't going to pull out. Bolder had a split second decision to make. Pull out and save his save his own skin? He didn't -. he carried on too. The two met in a thunderous impact. Bolder came away with the ball and Morgan was hurt. The message was that we weren't going to be intimidated. I expect yesterday they would have both been booked. Bolder might have had a straight red. Maybe its a sign of the times and the way the game is changing. mackay and rioch would never have finished a match. The game is poorer if tackling is outlawed. And just because its a foul, doesn't mean its a yellow card. Yesterdays match was decided by the referees contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 If Warnocks fouls were conceded by the opposition, even if it wasn't a bad game, I fully expect everyone on here would have been asking for a yellow card to be given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Stringer - no issue with us disagreeing over the interpretation. I don't disagree with you that in the he position his body was in the arms are in a natural position, however with the ways the rules are interpreted these days, the officials make a point that the arms can be infront of your face or by the sides of you. They cannot be stretched out anywhere. So blocking is fine, but blocking with how Keogh does it is a different matter. If this was dcfc attacking and an opposing player blocked a shot like this, I would definitely want a penalty. Omar was one more foul from being sent off so common sense to take him off. I thought he was lucky when he seemed to impede someone who was chasing a long ball. I know that's what a lot of referees are doing rammieib. But I'm not so sure that's an interpretation of the rules from the referees, rather than a basic misunderstanding of them. Handball has to be intentional. Keoghs intention was to do his job, play football and block the ball. So you can go one of 2 ways - Block the ball by all means Keogh but you know you're arms will be out whilst making that block so if it hits your arm while it's out its handball. This encourages players not to make blocks. If that's the case then, well, me and football don't get along anymore. Because that's a strange interpretation of 'intentional'. The 'handball' wasn't intentional but the 'handball' was a bi-product of the action that was your intention? Which was to do your job as a defender? Or you can say the handball specifically has to be intentional. Which makes more sense to me and I suspect was how the rule was supposed to be interpreted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I hope he never ever plays for us again Maybe Buxton should be booted out for costing us any chance of getting back into the game against Chelsea. What about Martin for costing us at least a point, and therefore potential promotion, at Burnley last year? Not one of your most mature posts B4 and you (as well as any else jumping on Warnock's back) should be ashamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 If Warnocks fouls were conceded by the opposition, even if it wasn't a bad game, I fully expect everyone on here would have been asking for a yellow card to be given. A single yellow for repeat fouls i could accept - just. But we don't want anaemic cup ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpleram Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Wasn't he stretching? In which case his hands were in an entirely natural position. How would you do what he did with your hands by your side? If we're gonna say that's handball then we're basically outlawing last ditch blocks. I think there's a better case for outlawing overhead kicks for being dangerous to be honest Someone on tv said something about unnatural arm position, and it passed into the supporters and pundits stock sayings, along with gems like 'never raise your hands' and 'there's contact'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Someone on tv said something about unnatural arm position, and it passed into the supporters and pundits stock sayings, along with gems like 'never raise your hands' and 'there's contact'. Yup. They're self-perpetuating myths started by Andy Townsend types. It's why we need actual fans as pundits as well. And it's only going to get worse as the current generation of delicate flower players become pundits. I dread to think the nonsense they'll come out with that will in turn become part of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Yes because he deliberately put his hands into an unnatural position where they were likely to block the ball. He does it all the time and gets away with it but it's handball. If his arms were down by his side, then it wouldn't be but they were not. I bet you thought it was handball at Ipswich, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 The best full bloodied 50:50 i ever saw was at bramhall lane. Chris morgan was tearing towards a loose ball. Adam bolder was also going for it. They were like two freight trains heading towards a head on collision. By Morgan's demeanour you could tell he wasn't going to pull out. Bolder had a split second decision to make. Pull out and save his save his own skin? He didn't -. he carried on too. The two met in a thunderous impact. Bolder came away with the ball and Morgan was hurt. The message was that we weren't going to be intimidated. I expect yesterday they would have both been booked. Bolder might have had a straight red. Maybe its a sign of the times and the way the game is changing. mackay and rioch would never have finished a match. The game is poorer if tackling is outlawed. And just because its a foul, doesn't mean its a yellow card. Yesterdays match was decided by the referees contribution. Correct, but sending Warnock off was about the only decision he got right all afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.