Big Club - Small Club chat

[Butros]

Did I say that? If you're going to debate with me can you at least listen to my points and not make things up for me?

You bought up money and power and Fulham outspending you and other teams. So don't think I made anything up there.

If you're going to keep moving the goalposts to suit your argument then it's you that's not worth debating with

[Butros]

Are Man City and Chelsea big clubs?

I didn't.I said Wigan are a similar size to a Derby. If pushed for an answer then I'd have to say Wigan are bigger because for the last 10 years they've been bigger financially and better on the pitch.There's big clubs like Chelsea, City, United etc. it doesn't matter what City's attendance was at Maine Road. It doesn't matter how many titles Chelsea won before Jose. These are huge clubs.Then from midtable PL through most the championship and some of L1 clubs are a similar size. It doesn't matter how many fans Derby get or how many months Burnley spend in the PL or how much Brighton paid for a CB. All have the same ambition and could interchange places over night. Villa could be midtable Championship in 5 years. Brighton could be midtable PL. None will reach the Champions League without big investment (and if that happens then they become big clubs playing in Europe signing players like Hazard).I don't get pissed off with debates on a message board. I don't get pissed off when someone has a different opinion. But I do get pissed off when people try to alter what I am saying.You said Derby are bigger than Wigan. I said I agree with the commentator that said they have a similar stature. A big club is a powerful club. The power difference between Villa and Derby isn't massive. Not worth arguing about. But if people insist on arguing then the power is with Villa. Same with Wigan. Although that is even closer.I didn't say making it to the PL and spending money makes a big club. So don't make **** up. Otherwise you might aswell start your own thread where only you can post and then argue with yourself.Like I said, I'm cool with a disagreement. We can agree to disagree. I just laugh when I hear Leeds and Forest fans going on about how big they are and don't want Derby fans to sound so stupid.But putting words in my mouth ain't on.Read all my post or none of it. Otherwise what's the point?

Practice what you preach then

[i-Ram]

I didn't.

I said Wigan are a similar size to a Derby. If pushed for an answer then I'd have to say Wigan are bigger because for the last 10 years they've been bigger financially and better on the pitch.

There's big clubs like Chelsea, City, United etc. it doesn't matter what City's attendance was at Maine Road. It doesn't matter how many titles Chelsea won before Jose. These are huge clubs.

Then from midtable PL through most the championship and some of L1 clubs are a similar size. It doesn't matter how many fans Derby get or how many months Burnley spend in the PL or how much Brighton paid for a CB. All have the same ambition and could interchange places over night. Villa could be midtable Championship in 5 years. Brighton could be midtable PL. None will reach the Champions League without big investment (and if that happens then they become big clubs playing in Europe signing players like Hazard).

I don't get pissed off with debates on a message board. I don't get pissed off when someone has a different opinion. But I do get pissed off when people try to alter what I am saying.

You said Derby are bigger than Wigan. I said I agree with the commentator that said they have a similar stature. A big club is a powerful club. The power difference between Villa and Derby isn't massive. Not worth arguing about. But if people insist on arguing then the power is with Villa. Same with Wigan. Although that is even closer.

I didn't say making it to the PL and spending money makes a big club. So don't make **** up. Otherwise you might aswell start your own thread where only you can post and then argue with yourself.

Like I said, I'm cool with a disagreement. We can agree to disagree. I just laugh when I hear Leeds and Forest fans going on about how big they are and don't want Derby fans to sound so stupid.

But putting words in my mouth ain't on.

Read all my post or none of it. Otherwise what's the point?

Thanks Alpha. I chose to read none of it.

[-JW-]

Same.

[Alph]

You bought up money and power and Fulham outspending you and other teams. So don't think I made anything up there.

If you're going to keep moving the goalposts to suit your argument then it's you that's not worth debating with

I've said the same thing right from the start. I've not moved any goalposts. You're choosing on piece of my post rather than looking at the Fulham example in context. But whatever, you've been argumentative since you signed up. Go pester someone else.

[Alph]

Ok, you think there is only the top six or so that are big.

The original argument was about whether Derby are bigger than Wigan, not whether either a big club. On that, it is clear that we have very different criteria and will have to agree to disagree.

You are hardly one to lecture on misinterpreting or misrepresenting a post considering you did it numerous times yesterday.

What did I misinterpret numerous times?

[Alph]

Thanks Alpha. I chose to read none of it.

I'll live.

[CumbrianRam]

Alpha is right, only six big clubs (Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd & Spurs), these are the clubs that can spend big and contend at the top of the league (maybe not for title, but for CL places. The rest really are interchangeable (though Everton are making a good go and being consistent top 7).

There are clubs which are slightly bigger than other in this interchangeable group, but the differences are so minute, then factors such as league status and finances come in to play. So in 1998 we had a bigger pull than the likes of Sunderland, West Brom, much bigger than Swansea and Fulham, but at the moment, West Brom, Sunderland and Swansea all have much bigger pulls than us, Fulham arguable if you account parachute payments.

Yes, we may got bigger attendance the clubs in the Prem and have a greater heritage, but the majority of players would not care about this, they'd want PL football and good salary, next year we may offer these things and I hope so.

But not yet sadly.

I can understand we people think we are bigger club than Wigan, but I have seen people belittle their and Swansea's achievements over the past decade due to they being "tin-pot" clubs, that fact is in 2014, unless a oil barron finds a long lost love for Derby, the best we can hope for is what Swansea, Wigan and Southampton have done in recent years. So yes we may be bigger than Wigan, but we have similar possible peaks and they have had more peaks in the PL era than us.

[Butros]

I've said the same thing right from the start. I've not moved any goalposts. You're choosing on piece of my post rather than looking at the Fulham example in context. But whatever, you've been argumentative since you signed up. Go pester someone else.

Perhaps if you made your posts more concise you wouldn't end up contradicting yourself

[RLACML]

What did I misinterpret numerous times?

A few of my posts earlier in the thread. Perhaps it isn't wise to get stuck in petty arguments such as this one, I was merely saying that everyone occasionally interprets something in a different way to suit their argument. As we were

[Tombo]

Why?

Because you support a Premier League club

[uttoxram75]

Alpha's posts are bigger than Wigan.

[Alph]

A few of my posts earlier in the thread. Perhaps it isn't wise to get stuck in petty arguments such as this one, I was merely saying that everyone occasionally interprets something in a different way to suit their argument. As we were

You're right. Wtf are we arguing over!!? Lol

[Alph]

Perhaps if you made your posts more concise you wouldn't end up contradicting yourself

Sorry. I was going to put my writing skills to use. I'm a real brain bug. Then I traded it all in to be a plasterer. Now I'm looking at a career in a warehouse.

If you don't understand my point in any of my boringly long posts then I would suggest you speak to someone on your level who's mad mumbling are worth of the West Brom forum

[Alph]

Alpha's posts are bigger than Wigan.

I regret most of them. I say it as it comes into my head then read them back and think fook me that's boring.

[RLACML]

You're right. Wtf are we arguing over!!? Lol

That's probably the first time someone's ever said I was right on here. Big moment for me

[Alph]

That's probably the first time someone's ever said I was right on here. Big moment for me

Could be just ignored most the time like me?

Nah mate, we should have agreed to disagree ages ago. It doesn't matter what clubs are big or little does it? Doesn't get you extra points. And it certainly doesn't help you beat Crawley in the FA Cup

[uttoxram75]

I regret most of them. I say it as it comes into my head then read them back and think fook me that's boring.

Haha......i started reading one at work and finished it when i got home!

 

Nah, i understand what you're saying.....its the word "big" that creates the argument. In my mind we are bigger than Wigan but that's because i remember them playing in the Northern Premier League when we were the best team in England. 

 

Over the last 10 years Wigan have been the more successfull, richer club. They've spent more on players in those 10 years than we have in our history. (probably, just guessing).

 

We are about the 15th best supported club in England (?) and consistently have averaged 10k more than Wigan over the last 10 years.

They have been a better, more successfull club.

 

Who's bigger? There is no right or wrong answer because its the wrong word, the wrong question. "Who's more successfull in any given decade", would probably be more pertinent.

Otherwise the question should be "who's got the biggest fanbase or biggest attendance".

[RLACML]

Could be just ignored most the time like me?

Nah mate, we should have agreed to disagree ages ago. It doesn't matter what clubs are big or little does it? Doesn't get you extra points. And it certainly doesn't help you beat Crawley in the FA Cup

I might be, who knows.

Very true. Come opening day, we aren't guaranteed anything against Rovrum. Need to go and win on merit.

[Butros]

Sorry. I was going to put my writing skills to use. I'm a real brain bug. Then I traded it all in to be a plasterer. Now I'm looking at a career in a warehouse.If you don't understand my point in any of my boringly long posts then I would suggest you speak to someone on your level who's mad mumbling are worth of the West Brom forum

Not sure what relevance a west brom forum has to this discussion but hey ho