The demise of Forest

[Knowle Rohrer]

To be fair, they have every right to be narked. McClaren's a better Manager than the one they currently think walks on water. That must irk them.

 

When Davies was sacked in 2011 and McClaren brought in many thought it was a definite upgrade in the quality of manager. His track record is good with a few disastrous stints on it. His record as a coach before going into management was also impressive and Middlesbrough saw his appointment as a real coup.

 

There are many reasons why it did not work for him at Forest, some of which are is his fault (as he admitted himself) and plenty down the board and underperforming players.

 

Do you think he will be at Derby in the long run or would he leave when he gets a Premier League offer?

[eddie]

To be fair, they have every right to be narked. McClaren's a better Manager than the one they currently think walks on water. That must irk them.

 

Also their early predictions that we were bound to be relegated now soon became we would not make the top half, then it became we would fall out of the playoffs and now of course it has changed to we will not make automatic. I see that some are playing the "Steve won't have a clue when we hit a bad run" gambit, but one of them has just pointed out that we lost 3 on the spin and bounced back again.

 

I await their next random rubbish with interest.

[StaffsRam]

When Davies was sacked in 2011 and McClaren brought in many thought it was a definite upgrade in the quality of manager. His track record is good with a few disastrous stints on it. His record as a coach before going into management was also impressive and Middlesbrough saw his appointment as a real coup.

There are many reasons why it did not work for him at Forest, some of which are is his fault (as he admitted himself) and plenty down the board and underperforming players.

Do you think he will be at Derby in the long run or would he leave when he gets a Premier League offer?

From memory McClaren's main confession of what he thought he'd done wrong at Forest was that he tried to do too much too quickly. I still wouldn't blame him for that entirely. A combination of unrealistic expectations from your fans and your board, together with uncontrolled spending were huge factors too.

IMO McClaren is at his best when he doesn't have a great deal to work with. A slim squad that he can intensively coach, modest funds available to supplement where necessary, and his reputation in the game attracting young talents that might otherwise have gone elsewhere. Plus a superb academy filtering through a conveyor belt of quality that then doesn't need to be bought.

That's the difference between McClaren and Davros - McClaren can 'manage' with what he's got. Davros just complains that he needs more, and if he doesn't get more then it's their fault that he can't 'manage'.

Your lot have been quick to take the p1ss in recent years since our disastrous Premier League campaign, but the bottom line is that this club has sorted itself out from top to bottom. Davros, and then the P0rnstar left us with a complete mess to sort out. The wage bill has been slashed, the dead wood moved on, the academy overhauled, our debt situation improved, and all the time Clough kept us in the division on a shoestring. Incremental improvement in the league position as well. Your lot like to call it luck, but it isn't, it's the culmination of 5/6 years' hard graft, behind the scenes every much so as on the pitch.

If your lot had any sense then you'd have long since taken a leaf out of our book. Instead you've got another one who's going to try and throw money at the situation, which is a good job considering that you've got Billy back again. Only problem is, we know, and you know, that Billy doesn't really have the mental strength to get the job done. Notice that the now traditional post-Christmas Davros wobble is underway.

You got lucky with Doughty. Really lucky. To have a fan who had the club's interests at heart to the extent of funding you without the expectation of getting it all back. Do you really think that Honest Abdul is going to be so charitable when he decides that he's had enough and chucks his toys out of the pram?

[mwram1973]

Do you think he will be at Derby in the long run or would he leave when he gets a Premier League offer?

 

 

Depends who comes in for him, if it's a lower prem club and were in the prem then no i think he will stay. I really think when he does go, Simmo will take over.

 

I think he's being groomed for the position now.

[TigerTedd]

Depends who comes in for him, if it's a lower prem club and were in the prem then no i think he will stay. I really think when he does go, Simmo will take over.

 

I think he's being groomed for the position now.

 

Oo, maybe United would want him back if they run out of patience with Moyes. He's got good form there, and if he can prove with us that he's back in form (which he's more than done), maybe they'd be interested. And he's probably got as much good feeling about his time at United as his time with us. Maybe.

 

But, as you say, not a terrible situation if he teaches Simmo all he knows and passes the torch.

 

Having said that, I don't imagine that happening any time soon. I think United might at least want to see what he does with us in the Prem.

[TigerTedd]

Also their early predictions that we were bound to be relegated now soon became we would not make the top half, then it became we would fall out of the playoffs and now of course it has changed to we will not make automatic. I see that some are playing the "Steve won't have a clue when we hit a bad run" gambit, but one of them has just pointed out that we lost 3 on the spin and bounced back again.

 

I await their next random rubbish with interest.

 

And when we've got 2nd sewn up, they'll have to say we won't be taking the top spot. Which they'll also be wrong about

[Knowle Rohrer]

From memory McClaren's main confession of what he thought he'd done wrong at Forest was that he tried to do too much too quickly. I still wouldn't blame him for that entirely. A combination of unrealistic expectations from your fans and your board, together with uncontrolled spending were huge factors too.

IMO McClaren is at his best when he doesn't have a great deal to work with. A slim squad that he can intensively coach, modest funds available to supplement where necessary, and his reputation in the game attracting young talents that might otherwise have gone elsewhere. Plus a superb academy filtering through a conveyor belt of quality that then doesn't need to be bought.

That's the difference between McClaren and Davros - McClaren can 'manage' with what he's got. Davros just complains that he needs more, and if he doesn't get more then it's their fault that he can't 'manage'.

Your lot have been quick to take the p1ss in recent years since our disastrous Premier League campaign, but the bottom line is that this club has sorted itself out from top to bottom. Davros, and then the P0rnstar left us with a complete mess to sort out. The wage bill has been slashed, the dead wood moved on, the academy overhauled, our debt situation improved, and all the time Clough kept us in the division on a shoestring. Incremental improvement in the league position as well. Your lot like to call it luck, but it isn't, it's the culmination of 5/6 years' hard graft, behind the scenes every much so as on the pitch.

If your lot had any sense then you'd have long since taken a leaf out of our book. Instead you've got another one who's going to try and throw money at the situation, which is a good job considering that you've got Billy back again. Only problem is, we know, and you know, that Billy doesn't really have the mental strength to get the job done. Notice that the now traditional post-Christmas Davros wobble is underway.

You got lucky with Doughty. Really lucky. To have a fan who had the club's interests at heart to the extent of funding you without the expectation of getting it all back. Do you really think that Honest Abdul is going to be so charitable when he decides that he's had enough and chucks his toys out of the pram?

 

To be fair we had finished in the play-offs two seasons in a row but had not made the final which was a long way where we'd come from previously. The club stated McClaren was being brought in to enable us to take the next step. He was right and his signings were poor as well (with the exception of Reid).

 

McClaren did have a slim squad at Forest but it was completely lacking in any depth, to expect the team to go into the season with only 5 senior defenders was insane and there were plenty of times we did not even have two central defenders. The main thing though was he did not agree on a direction with the club and they both rushed the decision.

 

McClaren did not manage with what he had at Forest which was mostly a side that had finished in the top 6 two seasons in a row with some expensive additons. Davies did well at managing your side to the top of the league before making some poor signings. He also did well at Preston with little cash and kept a poor Forest side up.

 

I don't disagree with the way your club has turned it all around is impressive. McClaren is certainly reaping the rewards of it now.

 

Did we actually get lucky with Doughty? He was a great investor but to be a great owner you have to move the club forward and improve it which he did not do at all. Throwing money at something guarantees nothing as many teams have shown at this level.

[davenportram]

Apparently Kevin was banned because of the replies he was getting. Aparently the members abusing him and name calling meant a ban was in his best interests.

[froggg]

Apparently Kevin was banned because of the replies he was getting. Aparently the members abusing him and name calling meant a ban was in his best interests.

Et tu kevin?

[davenportram]

Et tu kevin?

je n'appelle pas Kevin

[eddie]

Apparently Kevin was banned because of the replies he was getting. Aparently the members abusing him and name calling meant a ban was in his best interests.

 

Did Fridgy pull the trigger? His powers seem far-reaching, and he seems to respond to the loudest shouters. Perhaps they tweeted him.

 

That's the Forest way, isn't it?

[Leicester Ram]

Your lot have been quick to take the p1ss in recent years since our disastrous Premier League campaign, but the bottom line is that this club has sorted itself out from top to bottom. Davros, and then the P0rnstar left us with a complete mess to sort out. The wage bill has been slashed, the dead wood moved on, the academy overhauled, our debt situation improved, and all the time Clough kept us in the division on a shoestring. Incremental improvement in the league position as well. Your lot like to call it luck, but it isn't, it's the culmination of 5/6 years' hard graft, behind the scenes every much so as on the pitch.

 

Good para, that.

[stoners]

However, you don't get to two UEFA cup finals consecutively (winning one) and win the Dutch league ENTIRELY through luck.

Who's he won the uefa cup with?

[REDCAR]

Don't know!

Nobody I reckon.

[Leicester Ram]

Who's he won the uefa cup with?

 

Sorry, my mistake on that. I was re-typing and re-phrasing the post a lot

 

Originally said you don't gain two trophy's by accident

 

The said you don't get honours at consecutive clubs etc.

 

I got in a bit of a mess.

 

*insert egg on face*

[StaffsRam]

To be fair we had finished in the play-offs two seasons in a row but had not made the final which was a long way where we'd come from previously. The club stated McClaren was being brought in to enable us to take the next step. He was right and his signings were poor as well (with the exception of Reid).

Davros did the same with us, turned from relegation candidates into promotion chasers in a season. Despite his best efforts to fook it up. Top and looking good going into the new year but then insisted he be given money to spend so that he could bulk up the squad. Ultimately he destabilised the squad and we ended up drifting into the playoffs instead of either nailing on second or better going for the top. All because Billy didn't trust in what had gotten us to the top in the first place.

No coincidence that you too have suffered from the post Christmas/New Year Billy 'wobble'.

McClaren might have taken you on, but either by his own design, or by encouragement from your board he attempted to do too much too quickly. Billy's good at building teams that play his 'brand' of football but God help anyone else trying to do anything with that team once he's gone, especially if they try and undo that 'brand'. Didn't surprise me that McClaren tried to make drastic changes. Unfortunately, that gamble didn't pay off. Can't say as we were overly bothered....

 

McClaren did have a slim squad at Forest but it was completely lacking in any depth, to expect the team to go into the season with only 5 senior defenders was insane and there were plenty of times we did not even have two central defenders. The main thing though was he did not agree on a direction with the club and they both rushed the decision.

 

McClaren did not manage with what he had at Forest which was mostly a side that had finished in the top 6 two seasons in a row with some expensive additons. Davies did well at managing your side to the top of the league before making some poor signings. He also did well at Preston with little cash and kept a poor Forest side up.

McClaren didn't manage with what he had at Forest, largely because what he had wasn't good enough to go up. What he added wasn't either. That's the only problem with Davros teams, they're great for playing Davros football, but give that team to someone else and then try and get them to try and play a different way.....you'll have this problem again when he goes. You needed a longer term strategy with McClaren - should have been made clear that that season was a transition rather than trying to go up. Perhaps he'd have worried less about 'impact' signings and more time looking at your academy.

 

I don't disagree with the way your club has turned it all around is impressive. McClaren is certainly reaping the rewards of it now.

It helps that he inherited a good squad from Nigel. Nigel had clearly reached his limit in terms of what he could do with it, but credit to him for putting those foundations in place. What McClaren's done is to coach them, and manage them to a higher level still.

 

Did we actually get lucky with Doughty? He was a great investor but to be a great owner you have to move the club forward and improve it which he did not do at all. Throwing money at something guarantees nothing as many teams have shown at this level.

Yes, you got lucky with Doughty. Throwing money around does not guarantee success, see Fawaz, however how many would have taken the financial hits of those failures personally? How much did Doughty pump in just to keep you afloat? How much did you owe him in the end? How much have you paid back? Having someone back you to that extent, fuelled by nothing more than a desire to see the club go on to bigger and better is rare. Ultimately whether it's successful or not does not detract from the fact that you were lucky to be given the chance in the first place.

[mozza]

'Billy's good at building teams that play his 'brand' of football but God help anyone else trying to do anything with that team once he's gone'..

 

So , what we're saying is , PJ took on an impossible task , that ruined his career..

 

(in football management , anyway) 

[eddie]

'Billy's good at building teams that play his 'brand' of football but God help anyone else trying to do anything with that team once he's gone'..

 

So , what we're saying is , PJ took on an impossible task , that ruined his career..

 

(in football management , anyway) 

 

It's taken Preston 9 years to undo the damage.

[May Contain Nuts]

edit: what i was saying, has been said just above

 

 

This has been proven on at least 3 occasions. (Preston, Derby, Forest the first time)

[StaffsRam]

'Billy's good at building teams that play his 'brand' of football but God help anyone else trying to do anything with that team once he's gone'..

 

So , what we're saying is , PJ took on an impossible task , that ruined his career..

 

(in football management , anyway) 

 

It was an impossible task. Unfortunately he took that to the extreme and made us even worse!

 

It's taken Preston 9 years to undo the damage.

Preston were able to hold on to Nugent for a while after Billy came to us, so that muddied the waters and staved off the inevitable for a year or two.