San Fran Van Rams Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Dawkins will be a good signing if we can get for less than £1m if you use Keogh and Sammon as a measure Disagree... Sammon was not worth the £1m he cost us... Neither was Keogh seeing as he was part of a Coventry side which were just relegated to League 1 (although he did redeem himself by winning POTY) Considering Dawkins was an unknown who only played a handful of games for Villa and not one for Spurs, is 26, has a contract running out at the end of the season and has only just started to play well (last 3-4 games say) paying anything more than £250k would be to much IMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Disagree... Sammon was not worth the £1m he cost us... Neither was Keogh seeing as he was part of a Coventry side which were just relegated to League 1 (although he did redeem himself by winning POTY) Considering Dawkins was an unknown who only played a handful of games for Villa and not one for Spurs, is 26, has a contract running out at the end of the season and has only just started to play well (last 3-4 games say) paying anything more than £250k would be to much IMO... surely you value a player on how important and influential he is going to be to you, hence why it was deemed appropriate to pay over the odds for Sammon and Keogh. On the last 3-4 games, Dawkins looks potentially far more important to us than Keogh and Sammon. We could even lose Ward, who is proven to be influential to us, if we replaced with Dawkins. The lack of experience means nothing, Hughes has played about the same number of first team games, but he's worth something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Fran Van Rams Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 surely you value a player on how important and influential he is going to be to you, hence why it was deemed appropriate to pay over the odds for Sammon and Keogh. On the last 3-4 games, Dawkins looks potentially far more important to us than Keogh and Sammon. We could even lose Ward, who is proven to be influential to us, if we replaced with Dawkins. The lack of experience means nothing, Hughes has played about the same number of first team games, but he's worth something. Yes but I also look at his value to Spurs, who are selling him which I believe is relatively low considering he is 26 and not even played for their first team yet. Agree that he looks potentially more important to us than Keogh or Sammon but, as I said im my first reply, IMO we paid over the odds for Sammon and Keogh in the first place so their price shouldn't really be taken into account. Hughes is in a completely different bracket to Dawkins. Hughes is still very, very young but has already played a lot of games for a championship side. His game has also seen improvements over the last 2 years and is the centre point of a very successful and impressive championship midfield, this has merited the talk of him being the next big thing. Dawkins, on the other hand, is 26, approaching the pinnacle of his career and is yet to have a full season in English football. Not to mention the fact that he is only been playing well in the past few games (yet to see consistency) and we're yet to see his attitude is like in a losing team. Saying he's worth £1m to us seems far to much to me considering the above. Don't get me wrong, watching him last Saturday, I thought he was excellent and by all accounts he has been good in other games but £1m worth of good? For me he's not worth that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Yes but I also look at his value to Spurs, who are selling him which I believe is relatively low considering he is 26 and not even played for their first team yet. Agree that he looks potentially more important to us than Keogh or Sammon but, as I said im my first reply, IMO we paid over the odds for Sammon and Keogh in the first place so their price shouldn't really be taken into account. Hughes is in a completely different bracket to Dawkins. Hughes is still very, very young but has already played a lot of games for a championship side. His game has also seen improvements over the last 2 years and is the centre point of a very successful and impressive championship midfield, this has merited the talk of him being the next big thing. Dawkins, on the other hand, is 26, approaching the pinnacle of his career and is yet to have a full season in English football. Not to mention the fact that he is only been playing well in the past few games (yet to see consistency) and we're yet to see his attitude is like in a losing team. Saying he's worth £1m to us seems far to much to me considering the above. Don't get me wrong, watching him last Saturday, I thought he was excellent and by all accounts he has been good in other games but £1m worth of good? For me he's not worth that... Whilst I agree with your points... if he plays the rest of the season how he has thus far, he will be worth close to that if his contract were to be extended (I don't think it will) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Seller's market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Seller's market. Fully agree,eddie.If Dawkins continues to impress,he'll also be impressing other clubs,hence we're likely to pay what the market pushes us to.A player's value has always been what any club was willing to pay for his services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Fran Van Rams Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Whilst I agree with your points... if he plays the rest of the season how he has thus far, he will be worth close to that if his contract were to be extended (I don't think it will) Thats a big IF.... As he is only on an emergency 93 day loan, it makes sense for him to be pushing as hard as he can up until January so that he can earn either a permanent move, extended loan or a new contract with Spurs... be interesting to see if he can keep it up past January. Fully agree,eddie.If Dawkins continues to impress,he'll also be impressing other clubs,hence we're likely to pay what the market pushes us to.A player's value has always been what any club was willing to pay for his services. True, but before the Mac moved him to Derby it seemed as though Spurs hadn't got him in their plans, he had trials at QPR and FC Twente (I think) before here and was put out on loan in previous seasons to various clubs. Although his performances over the past few games have been good, what manager would take the risk of buying a player with relatively little experience, at the age of 26, whose only club where he has impressed (in England at least)has been Derby... he's only played 6 games with us too. For me, no other team in the division would pay a 'decent' amount for this kind of player, he is far too untested and would represent a huge risk. Yes, in the summer, IF he has a good season for Derby and we haven't signed him on a permanent in January I can see his value being pumped up to around the £1m mark, but as yet he's too untested for that amount of money. Regarding him being worth £1m in Janaury, Spurs would be silly to ask for it. For one, his contract runs out in the Summer and although they have an option to extend it, surely Dawkins has the option of accepting or rejecting the extension? If he has anything about him he would reject it and actually be at a club who he would play for regularly at first team level... this means that if they don't offload him in January, they'll lose him for free in the Summer... thus they wont want to risk losing him for nothing. Based on that, I'm not so sure it is a seller's market... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Although his performances over the past few games have been good, what manager would take the risk of buying a player with relatively little experience, at the age of 26, whose only club where he has impressed (in England at least)has been Derby... he's only played 6 games with us too. For me, no other team in the division would pay a 'decent' amount for this kind of player, he is far too untested and would represent a huge risk. Yes, in the summer, IF he has a good season for Derby and we haven't signed him on a permanent in January I can see his value being pumped up to around the £1m mark, but as yet he's too untested for that amount of money. Regarding him being worth £1m in Janaury, Spurs would be silly to ask for it. For one, his contract runs out in the Summer and although they have an option to extend it, surely Dawkins has the option of accepting or rejecting the extension? If he has anything about him he would reject it and actually be at a club who he would play for regularly at first team level... this means that if they don't offload him in January, they'll lose him for free in the Summer... thus they wont want to risk losing him for nothing. Based on that, I'm not so sure it is a seller's market... I did say "continues to impress" ,and there are quite a few games for him to make this impression.Whilst his finishing may currently leave a bit to be desired,he does have strong attributes,not least the ability to drift effortlessly past players in dangerous areas-very few at this level have that ability.If talking about risk,then in my opinion he'd represent less of a risk (if he continues to perform) than that which,say,Russell initially represented to us.Although JR had performed up north,he was unproven at this level,yet he may turn out to be a snip at the price we paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Dawkins seems to be fairly level headed and I'm sure I heard him say in an interview that he's wanted to work with McClaren for a while. Therefore I think Dawkins would want to come to us, if a bid was placed. He doesn't seem to be driven by money and so I hope we will lodge a bid for him. Around the 400-500k mark would be about right considering his performances for us in recent weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Thats a big IF.... As he is only on an emergency 93 day loan, it makes sense for him to be pushing as hard as he can up until January so that he can earn either a permanent move, extended loan or a new contract with Spurs... be interesting to see if he can keep it up past January. True, but before the Mac moved him to Derby it seemed as though Spurs hadn't got him in their plans, he had trials at QPR and FC Twente (I think) before here and was put out on loan in previous seasons to various clubs. Although his performances over the past few games have been good, what manager would take the risk of buying a player with relatively little experience, at the age of 26, whose only club where he has impressed (in England at least)has been Derby... he's only played 6 games with us too. For me, no other team in the division would pay a 'decent' amount for this kind of player, he is far too untested and would represent a huge risk. Yes, in the summer, IF he has a good season for Derby and we haven't signed him on a permanent in January I can see his value being pumped up to around the £1m mark, but as yet he's too untested for that amount of money. Regarding him being worth £1m in Janaury, Spurs would be silly to ask for it. For one, his contract runs out in the Summer and although they have an option to extend it, surely Dawkins has the option of accepting or rejecting the extension? If he has anything about him he would reject it and actually be at a club who he would play for regularly at first team level... this means that if they don't offload him in January, they'll lose him for free in the Summer... thus they wont want to risk losing him for nothing. Based on that, I'm not so sure it is a seller's market... The whole point is he doesn't have the option of extension, it's the club's option, if they choose to extend it, he is still under contract. If it was up to both of them, it wouldn't exist at all. Thus is value is higher with this option in place, maybe 2-3 times higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 The whole point is he doesn't have the option of extension, it's the club's option, if they choose to extend it, he is still under contract. If it was up to both of them, it wouldn't exist at all. Thus is value is higher with this option in place, maybe 2-3 times higher. and knowing how Daniel Levy likes to operate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbydave96 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 if dawkins is regareded as the right player, which seemingly is the case, we should pay whatever is necessary to sign him obviously we want to pay as little as possible, but the difference of a few hundered thousand, is nothing when you compare it to the prize available for promotion and if dawkins is going to help us get there, which i think he is, pay whatever that idiot levy demands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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