eddie Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 It doesn't matter how well ever does - the credit will always go to somebody else in some eyes, and he will never win over a group of supporters. It's exactly the same as a certain Scotsman in the tennis. He will never win some people over, for one reason alone. Some people are just not capable of changing their mind under any circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 It doesn't matter how well ever does - the credit will always go to somebody else, and he will never win over a group of supporters. It's exactly the same as a certain Scotsman in the tennis. He will never win some people over, for one reason alone. Some people are just not capable of changing their mind under any circumstances. The same can be said for those that blindly follow someone.. Even if NC fails spectacularly and we end up going down, some of his avid followers will shift the blame onto someone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 It doesn't matter how well ever does - the credit will always go to somebody else in some eyes, and he will never win over a group of supporters. It's exactly the same as a certain Scotsman in the tennis. He will never win some people over, for one reason alone. Some people are just not capable of changing their mind under any circumstances. Couldn't the same thing be said the other way around? Or of any opinion? You have an opinion, and even if it's proved correct, someone will always find a way around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I'm willing to make a strong statement and say NC will never ever get Derby promoted.. He's simply too negative as a manager and is overall a loser.. Maybe loser is a strong word but he's certainly not a winner.. It's a shame really as I build into his idea of a young, healthy looking squad with the supposed emphasis of short passing football.. It's just the most important aspect of being a manager, and one that so many posters on this forum who are fully behind Clough seem to forget, is that there isn't one part or detail about football management as important as winning football matches.. Clough clearly does so many things right at this club as they've all been mentioned on here by his fans hundreds of times over, but not one of them comes close to the importance of winning football matches.. And Clough can't do that. I liken it to a business I had.. I had great workers, my merchandise was really good, my shop itself was beautiful looking, it was environmentally friendly and it looked top notch.. But the main importance was, it simply didn't make enough money, infact it was losing money, and that is the most important part so I had to close it down.. Clough is the same, the guy loses football matches, and that far outweighs any other statistic or fact that sways in his favour.. I'm thinking, or hoping, that the management's energy has been spent on getting certain things right, and the winning mentality and the 100% focus on the first team's league campaign will fall nicely into place. Can't blame you for feeling this way though. Whether you're pro Clough or not, you can't be satisfied with our away form. And away form has got little to do with budget... But hey ho, things change. He's a human being with a human brain, and if you believe what's said of him, he's an intelligent bloke. Humans, and especially intelligent ones, are good at learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 The same can be said for those that blindly follow someone.. Even if NC fails spectacularly and we end up going down, some of his avid followers will shift the blame onto someone else As far as I am concerned, if Clough fails spectacularly, then the blame will lie with Clough. He hasn't succeeded in your eyes, but he hasn't failed in mine either. As far as you are concerned, he has one mission alone, and that is to get us promoted, and you have already condemned him as a failure in that aim. As far as I am concerned, he has three missions. 1. To stabilise the club which was in free fall 2. To move the club in the right direction 3. To get us promoted. Meat Loaf said "Two out of three ain't bad" - and that's where we are at the moment in my mind. I'm content with the progress we have made under Clough, but I am not delirious about it. If he does fulfil his mission, then I will most definitely be so. The only question in my mind remains - how long can we wait? Perhaps your only problem, Bris, is you are just a little on the impatient side. After all, I've seen this club have success - and believe me, the fall from grace after that success was every bit as catastrophic as the Davies-Jewell engineered one. I honestly believe that if we hadn't replaced Jewell when we did, we would have been relegated again, which is why I didn't say 'more so'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Couldn't the same thing be said the other way around? Or of any opinion? You have an opinion, and even if it's proved correct, someone will always find a way around it. Perhaps, but if success is only measured in terms of promotion, is it equally true that failure is measured in terms of not getting promotion? In these days of the plastic fan there are still different measures of achievement for different clubs, even at the top. Chelski finishing outside the top one is failure, Man City finishing outside the top one is failure, Arsenal finishing in the top four is success. I can't quite work that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Perhaps, but if success is only measured in terms of promotion, is it equally true that failure is measured in terms of not getting promotion? In these days of the plastic fan there are still different measures of achievement for different clubs, even at the top. Chelski finishing outside the top one is failure, Man City finishing outside the top one is failure, Arsenal finishing in the top four is success. I can't quite work that out. I think Arsenal gave up the title years ago.. Top 4 is their aim, failure would be to finish outside the top 4.. As for City, Chelsea and Utd it's the league every year.. Failure is not competing for the title, disappointment is not winning the title.. In Chelsea's case the past 2 seasons they've been nowhere near and have ultimately failed.. As for NPC sides.. Look around the league and which sides are happy to stay in the league and which sides aim for promotion.. Other than Doncaster, Yeovil, Barnsley and perhaps Millwall every other side (including Huddersfield and Bournemouth) should be looking at promotion.. Why wouldn't they? Every season that passes without promotion is disappointing.. But every season that passes where you're nowhere near the playoffs is a failure IMO.. Derby for the past 2 years haven't been near the playoffs.. You can't use the wages, transfers etc. excuse because it's the same for everyone.. McCarthy took over a poor Ipswich side full of older pros who were shot of confidence.. He had them on playoff form from the moment he took over.. Billy Davies took over a poor Forest side from Calderwood and transformed them within a year.. Freedman at Palace transformed them into playoff contenders. Bruce at Hull etc.. I don't believe in building at NPC level.. Because any one season everything could go t!ts up or on the other hand everything could click.. And the moment the season finishes the 18 sides that remained in the division are back to square one and joined by 6 more.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I think Arsenal gave up the title years ago.. Top 4 is their aim, failure would be to finish outside the top 4.. As for City, Chelsea and Utd it's the league every year.. Failure is not competing for the title, disappointment is not winning the title.. In Chelsea's case the past 2 seasons they've been nowhere near and have ultimately failed.. As for NPC sides.. Look around the league and which sides are happy to stay in the league and which sides aim for promotion.. Other than Doncaster, Yeovil, Barnsley and perhaps Millwall every other side (including Huddersfield and Bournemouth) should be looking at promotion.. Why wouldn't they? Every season that passes without promotion is disappointing.. But every season that passes where you're nowhere near the playoffs is a failure IMO.. Derby for the past 2 years haven't been near the playoffs.. You can't use the wages, transfers etc. excuse because it's the same for everyone.. McCarthy took over a poor Ipswich side full of older pros who were shot of confidence.. He had them on playoff form from the moment he took over.. Billy Davies took over a poor Forest side from Calderwood and transformed them within a year.. Freedman at Palace transformed them into playoff contenders. Bruce at Hull etc.. I don't believe in building at NPC level.. Because any one season everything could go t!ts up or on the other hand everything could click.. And the moment the season finishes the 18 sides that remained in the division are back to square one and joined by 6 more.. Well I prefer the square 1 we are at now compared to the square 1 we were at at the end of Clough's first half season. Both on and off field. Not really Clough's decision to build slowly and carefully rather than going for broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nijul_cluff Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 The same can be said for those that blindly follow someone.. Even if NC fails spectacularly and we end up going down, some of his avid followers will shift the blame onto someone else And if we get promoted, you'll be up hos ar$e! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Up a ho's ar£e? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Up a ho's ar£e? No change there then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nijul_cluff Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Up a ho's ar£e? His arse, Cloughs arse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 About going of broke I thought according to many Leicester would be bust if they didn't go up and have to sell everyone due to FFP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 About going of broke I thought according to many Leicester would be bust if they didn't go up and have to sell everyone due to FFP Apparently, football has not finished forever and things may yet happen in the future. Every time a gamble fails, the next gamble is bigger again. If someone is writing blank cheques for Leicester then good luck too them. I'm sure there is nothing that can go wrong. When does FFP kick in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share Posted July 8, 2013 look guys nigel clough had to learn from somewere burton to derby at the time was a massive step up, and he has to learn the hard way sometimes, but i think now nigel clough is looking at last the manger we knew he could be, i think he has slowly been turning more into his dad this summer and centerly has not let the yanks boss him around as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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