not sure we should be focussing on new players....

[May Contain Nuts]

I just don't think there will be a hod load of cash this summer, and any improvements we make on the pitch IF we do make them will be incremental at the best - not a quantum leap into the Top 6 but incremental, maybe a slight bettering of last years league position, maybe a slight improvement on our points tally, one of the other, nothing huge. And IF we obtain this incremental improvement this will be down to which players we can turn over in the transfer market this summer. 

 

Fick. Mich.

 

It isn't a 'quantum leap' from where we are now to the playoffs.

 

You generally need between 70-75 points to get in them (it's pretty much unheard of to need more than 75) - that's 5 wins on top of what we have this season to virtually guarantee a spot (at 76). Hardly an impossible ask.

[notts_ram]

We haven't achieved it in the previous 4 seasons under Clough so yes, it is a quantum leap - and please am not expecting a flood of posts cataloguing the reasons why Clough hasn't managed to achieve this, am merely stating that we haven't achieved it before so will be a giant step

[LeedsCityRam]

If I turned around and said that, then surely someone could say "well, how can he be? He's good enough at home...." lol

 

I usually have a theory/answer/solution for many things, but the away form/results is something that just baffles me.

 

This "phenomenon" isn't unique to Derby - nearly all team record superior results at home compared to away.

 

I don't necessarily buy into the fact that the team are mentally incapable of winning away but confidence on the road is clearly low because of the results & so the vicious circle continues.

 

The key to consistently get results on the road is to have a disciplined tight unit, as the team will be put under real pressure at some stage away from home. This is where experience & know how comes in handy - not something you necessary associate with a young team - which is what we currently have.

 

The second thing is the ability to create something out of nothing/take your chances when they come. I feel Derby are too predictable, particularly away from home - sure, we can pass the ball around nicely enough but we're not hurting teams enough. Not just in terms of finishing chances but actually creating them full stop. Therefore, one mistake at the back & we've lost again - one goal defeats have been a recurring theme this year. It really is such fine margins.

 

How do we solve it? Old head in midfield somewhere - if wages/reality weren't an issue, someone like Phil Neville or Danny Murphy would improve us massively. And someone to create things further up the field - arguably Hughes is capable of playing this role but I would like another creative outlet.

 

A new striker would obviously be good but only if they're a significant improvement on what we already have. If not possible, I'd like to see Mason Bennett increasingly involved next season & Jacobs given more chances to build on an encouraging cameo against Boro.

[May Contain Nuts]

We haven't achieved it in the previous 4 seasons under Clough so yes, it is a quantum leap - and please am not expecting a flood of posts cataloguing the reasons why Clough hasn't managed to achieve this, am merely stating that we haven't achieved it before so will be a giant step

 

 

i see where you're coming from, but for me the only seasons that really matter for DCFC at the moment are the season just gone and the season coming. Whatever has come in the seasons before 2012/13 means little to me.

 

The season just gone had so many close matches in it, but I would say that every win we did achieve was fully deserved, I never looked at a game in hindsight and wondered just how we got something out of it. I'd also say that the majority of our dropped points were in games that could easily have gone either way.

 

For me that shows that even the incremental improvement in our performances you mention would result in enough extra points to give us a very real chance of getting in the play-offs, you disagree, fair enough.

[RodleyRam]

I can see where Mostyn is going with this but I don't necessarily agree that our away form is down to tactics/motivation etc as such. We've struggled away from home but been excellent at home so clearly the players we have currently have it in them, that I agree with.

 

However, for whatever reason playing away from home is a different proposition to playing at home but I don't think we've been seriously let down by our tactics as such or by our approach to games, where we have looked to retain possession, build from the back and create good chances to score. However, if you look at our away results this season, we've rarely been outplayed, or destroyed and I think it's more down to a lack of experience, a little bit of an inability to deal with extended periods of pressure and a failure to put away a few more chances.

 

If you look at the stats for possession and goal attempts we've more than matched almost every team both home and away. The problem away (and occasionally at home) has largely been individual errors in both boxes. At home we have created more clear cut chances more regularly but away from home it's clear you need to take the opportunities that come along because they're likely to be fewer than at home. In defense we've been guilty of letting in soft goals, which then puts undue pressure on the forwards to get goals, it's a bit of a problematic cycle but not down to poor tactics.

 

What I'm trying to get at is I don't think we've done a great deal wrong home or away this season in terms of tactics or approach to games. We lack strength in depth to be able to mix things up a bit and we lack a bit of nous in both boxes to keep clean sheets and take chances - for whatever reason these aspects of the game are more exposed away from home, which is why the difference between our home and away points return is so stark.

 

I think by adding 3 more first team players CB, wide midfield and striker with proven quality at this level or higher we can address the problems we have away from home because it's not down to the way we have approached games as such, it's down to individual errors, inexperience and a lack of quality at times.

 

I think these additions will have a knock on effect on our confidence away from home and bob's your mother's brother...

[Mostyn6]

well reasoned comment Rodders, but I go on what I've seen with my own eyes. As an example, the notorious visit to Hillsborough this season, we threw away a two-goal lead, and it wasn't down to inexperience of the players or anything like that, it was clearly down to the manager telling the players to retreat ten yards or so. Which in turn invited Wednesday to attack and eventually earn the draw, almost identical to the home fixture.

 

Until going behind in most away games I've witnessed, we tend to be deeper than at home.

 

If you imagine it this way, at home we play (excluding GK) 0-4-0-5-1-0 formation, visualise each aread as a sixth of the pitch, not a third, then away, we change to a 4-0-5-0-1-0, effectively the defensive and midfield line are further back. Possession should and does remain similar to home, and the physical shape of the team in relation remains the same, albeit Sammon is further isolated in no-mans land.

[eddie]

I'm not convinced that a side ever make a conscious effort to 'retreat 10 yards'. What tends to happen (IMO) is a side 2 goals down throws caution to the wind on the premise that they no longer have anything to lose, throw additional players forward and this in turn 'forces' the midfield back and then the defence drop deeper still.

[Mostyn6]

I'm not convinced that a side ever make a conscious effort to 'retreat 10 yards'. What tends to happen (IMO) is a side 2 goals down throws caution to the wind on the premise that they no longer have anything to lose, throw additional players forward and this in turn 'forces' the midfield back and then the defence drop deeper still.

 

 

Sorry Eddie, I had spies near the dugout (ex-GF is an owl... not literally), and I happened to spot players looking at Clough and nodding has he was gesturing to retreat. It's not the first time. QPR - the t-shirt game, AND the home game v Sheff Weds, and many others too, you can visibly see, and if near the dugout, hear Clough instructing players to get back and stay deep.

[RodleyRam]

well reasoned comment Rodders, but I go on what I've seen with my own eyes. As an example, the notorious visit to Hillsborough this season, we threw away a two-goal lead, and it wasn't down to inexperience of the players or anything like that, it was clearly down to the manager telling the players to retreat ten yards or so. Which in turn invited Wednesday to attack and eventually earn the draw, almost identical to the home fixture.

 

I can see your point here and sometimes I do think we're guilty of inviting teams onto us if we have the lead, last season defending under pressure wasn't necessarily a strength but we did manage it successfully at times, Leicester at home for example. However, in my view these are more isolated examples and not systemic negativity on the part of the management. I think we have tried to go about getting points away from home in the right way, I'm just not convinced we've quite got the quality up front and at the back to deliver regularly away from PP.

 

In the case of that game against the Wendies, I think it's fair to say that 2-0 up away from home most managers would look to try and protect the lead and sure up at the back. I think this is where having a few better players would have made the process of keeping a clean sheet easier, you can successfully drop off and make it almost impossible for the opposition to break you down, it just so happens in this case that we didn't have the players to execute the plan... I guess you could argue that we shouldn't be trying that kind of plan if we don't have the players to pull it off but I think you'd be hard pushed to find many managers that would have done things much differently in that situation.

 

I suppose time will tell if Clough's summer signing can actually make the difference as we all hope they might, what you can't really argue with is that we do need more strength in depth and more options to rotate and give players a breather. Whether that helps to get points away across the season remains to be seen but I fully expect us to significantly increase our away points total next year.

[ronnieronalde]

Both of the Sheff Weds games kicked the living ***** of me. I couldn't believe we let both leads slip. The first one at home was a disgrace, especially coming off the back of throwing away the Ssausagehorpe game. The away game was a disgrace because we  should have learned our lessons from the the home game. I wasn't happy with the way we played, I wasn't delighted with a couple of the changes (gjokaj coming on in the home game?) but I can't blame the manager for us dropping points. He's got to expect that we're good enough to close those games out, no matter which 11 are out there.

 

Collectively in both games the team should have had a "screw this, we're not throwing this away again" mentality. Sometimes the players MUST accept responsibility. There is no way the manager tells them to give the ball away, there is no way the manager tells them not to close down.

 

We would not have thrown away both of those games with either Barker or Shackell in the centre of defence. maybe they'd have come back once, not twice.

 

For 24 hours after both games I was livid BUT I don't blame the players for that.  It happens, it's football. I do hope they learn from it and if we go 2-0 up at Wednesday next year we'll close out the game properly.

 

Again maybe some will think I'm arguing for arguing sakes but I just think some are going a bit too deep into things looking for a reason or someone to blame. As some have quoted elsewhere, why does there always have to be someone to blame?

 

As for sitting back or the manager telling them to sit back when we've got a lead, you'll see it all over the world, it's human nature.

 

You tend to want to protect what you've got. Players do it without even thinking, often it's a psychological response. Players mentally decide to sit a bit deeper going into the last 15 minutes.

 

You'll see at all levels, teams go solid and put two banks of four across the middle. You'll see teams bring on a centre half to shore things up. I don't understand why we're picking faults in our manager when you see it happen with every single team in every single league in the world.

 

Even if he's hauling them back by the scruff of their neck, he's definitely not telling them to make individual mistakes that lead to goals.

 

For us to have been sitting back and inviting them on we would have to have not created a chance in the last 15 minutes ourselves. I honestly don't think that was the case in either of the Sheff Wed games. Yes we dropped deeper but I don't believe we stopped playing as much as some imply.

[Mostyn6]

I wouldn't disagree with you too much Ronnie, I just remember that game vividly. I remember gulping and thinking "oh ****, I was wrong about Clough, I best get the recipe for humble pie".

 

For 35 minutes, Sheff Weds had nothing, we pinned them back and attacked slowly, but in waves. We were so much in control, that they were literally shocked and didn't know what to do. They only had one player in our half at any one time as they were scared stiff. Their attacks involved one player at a time running and stumbling thirty yards before lashing a shot 20 feet high and 20 feet wide from 40 yards out!! It was easy, like taking candy from a sleeping baby.

 

Then at two-nil up, when teams would smell the fear and go for the jugular, we physically retreated, you could see the lines go backwards, starting with midfield, then as they were struggling for breathing space, the defence. Ruthless teams would've destroyed Sheffield Wednesday, a bit like we did Palace a couple of years ago.

[uttoxram75]

Absolute bollux as usual mostyn.

 

Wednesday scored a cracker completely out the blue at PP just before HT which gave them a massive lift. They then snatched a 90th minute equaliser which was gutting at the time but thats football.

 

In the away match we was undone by poor defending at two set pieces and continued to play the better football throughout.

 

The problem with us not winning every game is that there is another team of professionals doing their hardest to stop us. To expect us to dominate every match for 90 minutes is very naive.

[Mostyn6]

Absolute bollux as usual mostyn.

 

Wednesday scored a cracker completely out the blue at PP just before HT which gave them a massive lift. They then snatched a 90th minute equaliser which was gutting at the time but thats football.

 

In the away match we was undone by poor defending at two set pieces and continued to play the better football throughout.

 

The problem with us not winning every game is that there is another team of professionals doing their hardest to stop us. To expect us to dominate every match for 90 minutes is very naive.

 

I know you need educating in the art of reading, but as I say, for the first 35 mins, the only time they entered our half was one bloke at a time. THEN, once Clough dragged everyone back, they supported the one bloke, and at the time of scoring a cracker, there were about 6 Sheff Weds players in our half. Although, my point is no way subtle, you've clearly missed it! Had we continued to play as we did in the first 35 mins, calm and controlled and positively, their player would NOT have even been in our half to score a cracker!

[uttoxram75]

Clough didn't drag every one back in the home match v Wendy......they got back into the game with a spectacular goal totally against the run of play. we couldn't get our passing game going again and they grew in confidence.

 

Try watching the game as a fan, not as a clough hater, and you may just see a team of youngsters, freebies and cheap signings trying to gel and evolve as a team rather than letting your personal vendetta against the bloke cloud your judgement.

 

Have you ever played competitive football yourself? You don't seem to understand the dynamics of team play when the opposition are doing their damndest to stop you.

 

Clough has made many perplexing decisions with tactics, substitutions and players out of position, exactly the same as every other manager we've ever had, but to suggest he dragged every body back in those two games is blatantly untrue..

 

You obviously know better.

[ronnieronalde]

I know you need educating in the art of reading, but as I say, for the first 35 mins, the only time they entered our half was one bloke at a time. THEN, once Clough dragged everyone back, they supported the one bloke, and at the time of scoring a cracker, there were about 6 Sheff Weds players in our half. Although, my point is no way subtle, you've clearly missed it! Had we continued to play as we did in the first 35 mins, calm and controlled and positively, their player would NOT have even been in our half to score a cracker!

Seriously Mostyn.

 

is there any chance whatsoever of you just stopping with that reading crap?

 

You insult anyone and everyone with that accusation and then wonder why people may come back with slightly narky responses.

 

You're wrong about what you say, then when somoene comes back and tells you you're wrong, you've  got nothing but insults.

 

You do this place no favours at all.

[Mostyn6]

Clough didn't drag every one back in the home match v Wendy......they got back into the game with a spectacular goal totally against the run of play. we couldn't get our passing game going again and they grew in confidence.

 

Try watching the game as a fan, not as a clough hater, and you may just see a team of youngsters, freebies and cheap signings trying to gel and evolve as a team rather than letting your personal vendetta against the bloke cloud your judgement.

 

Have you ever played competitive football yourself? You don't seem to understand the dynamics of team play when the opposition are doing their damndest to stop you.

 

Clough has made many perplexing decisions with tactics, substitutions and players out of position, exactly the same as every other manager we've ever had, but to suggest he dragged every body back in those two games is blatantly untrue..

 

You obviously know better

 

I remember that game vividly, I don't need you to re-write the story of what happened.

 

He did drag the players back, I saw it with my own eyes. You're a very sad person if you use my lack of faith in Clough to dismiss valid and honest points of view. It's not 'blatantly untrue' at all. Actually, were you even at either of the games? He did the same v QPR on the t-shirt game, you might have seen that, it was on BBCtv.

[Mostyn6]

Seriously Mostyn.

 

is there any chance whatsoever of you just stopping with that reading crap?

 

You insult anyone and everyone with that accusation and then wonder why people may come back with slightly narky responses.

 

You're wrong about what you say, then when somoene comes back and tells you you're wrong, you've  got nothing but insults.

 

You do this place no favours at all.

 

 

When people stop putting words in my mouth and suggesting I've written something different to what I actually have, then yeah..

 

again, though, you're quite guilty of doing it. Show me where I have insulted somebody....

[uttoxram75]

I remember that game vividly, I don't need you to re-write the story of what happened.

 

He did drag the players back, I saw it with my own eyes. You're a very sad person if you use my lack of faith in Clough to dismiss valid and honest points of view. It's not 'blatantly untrue' at all. Actually, were you even at either of the games? He did the same v QPR on the t-shirt game, you might have seen that, it was on BBCtv.

I was at both games. 

 

Your views are neither honest or valid in my sad opinion!

 

I said you are talking bollux, that's attacking your post, not you personally.

 

So far in this exchange you have called me a sad person and told me I need educating in the art of reading, all because I don't agree with you. You also ask if I was at either of the games. I wouldn't argue the point if I wasn't.

 

 

 

Grow up. We all have different views on many subjects on here - you post as if yours is factual when all it is is your opinion.

[Mostyn6]

I said "sad IF..."... don't be so precious

 

x

[Ambitious]

I haven't seen a game this season where we haven't been on top for the first 10/15 minutes - even in games we've gone behind early on, usually we've been the 'control' team. 

 

I just think concentration, fitness, perseverance, confidence and experience over anything else would take us a lot further - I think playing the same team through so many games is obviously going to make things stale, a few times we just needed some fresh legs - like when Sammon and Hendrick had a rest, the game after they were first class!