CumbrianRam Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Basically we should not be signing players for that sake alone, every player signed should be better than what we have here already, however just signing better players won't automatically mean we will be fighting promotion. Factors like tactics, coaching, mentality especially away from home, better use of substitutes all need to be better next year. There is no point in having multi-year plans in leagues like ours, doing so allows for an acceptance of failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammie002 Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Agreed with Coconut, every year you have to look to improve. That means, players, tactics training, the lot basically. And honestly the most interesting one to talk about is the players which is why people focus on it. Better players will obviously help improve away form, but it's not just the players, it's how them individuals play with the team to provide an entirely better performance all round. I'm sure even if you go onto Bayern's forums (who have been arguably the best team in Europe this year) they will be focusing on new players to make them better. This pretty much equals to every fan's discussion over summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 but the size of goals is the same wherever you play, so why are players clinical in front of one goal and not another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 just to re-iterate, I've said quite clearly that I'd like some new players. My point is that there's no real reason to assume/blame the quality of player we have had this season, cos they've proven capable. So there are other factors. Also, two posters have stated that I've said that it's not the coaches, I never said it's not the coaches. (I said that I hadn't mentioned Clough) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notts_ram Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 so why are players clinical in front of one goal and not another? You've lost me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Not sure why this thread is 'idiotic', i think Mostyn makes a fair point. Our consistently dire away results stem i believe, from the hammerings we took in the early years of Cloughs reign. Since then we have a incredibly negative mindset away from home which seems to be ingrained, not only within the management, but also the players. This is incredibly frustrating considering the quality of our home performances and a select group of away games, Wolves being a prime example. Changing this mindset has to be a crucial aspect of pre-season imo. New players will help, Grant could be significant for adding some experience away from home, however regardless of transfers in and out, Clough needs to adopt a more positive approach away from home, we may suffer bigger defeats but i'd take it 4 more wins away from home and a few batterings, instead of rolling over by 1 goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 but the size of goals is the same wherever you play, so why are players clinical in front of one goal and not another? A question for the ages that one. Why do football teams generally consistently have better home records than away records? It would be an interesting little statistics discussion albeit an impossible one to easily get the statistics for... a list of 'prolific' English league goalscorers and what percentage of their goals came in home, away or neutral matches respectively. I do agree with people's points saying that we also need to see an improvement from Clough as well as just the squad - it may have appeared I was making every excuse in the book for him up until now, but there's really not any excuse for such a sustained spell of awful away form, his lack of tactial nous in substitutions and team selection etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 I just have this feeling that many of our players haven't yet reached their potential. There are several on here who rate Sammon highly and think he has a lot more to offer. So for me, the first thing I'd do is address whatever it is that is stopping us from gaining points away from home and changing it, at that point, we assess the starting XI. Radical overhauls of the starting eleven can backfire. We talk about stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Agreed (with mostyn's post, some of it) - but then the reason this group of players isn't getting the points away from home could be contained within your post. They're still developing as a team, but currently lack the experience required to to do the right things at the right time on a regular basis, which leads to us letting in goals, or missing opportunities. Sammon is a case in point, if he'd have tucked away a number of his one on ones we'd have more points. If we add the right players, players who have the required experience and are able to pass it on to our still developing players already in the squad... then we could go far. I don't think we are radically overhauling anything right now - the core of our team that finished the season is going to be here still, the additions are being made so that we have more opportunity to rotate our squad when players inevitably have a spell out of form or out with an injury. Alternatively, Nigel could actually prove to not have a clue what he's doing away from home once and for all. I prefer to think it's the former though! That's why I truly believe that next season is key, we've got the base to build on more than at any other time in Clough's reign - if we do the right things this pre-season we'll progress and stand a fair chance of going up. If we do tthe wrong things and don't learn any lessons from this season, then there can be no excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 .... there are so many threads at the moment discussing potential new signings and these proclaimed six new signings and potentially a challenge for the top six finish. In my opinion it would be nice to have a bit of flair signed and in the side, as well as a bit of tricky pace up front. I do however think we are focussing on the wrong thing. It would be very unfair and perhaps even misleading to suggest that the thing stopping us hitting a play-off place this season (2012-13) was the players, and that getting new players in will make a difference. The reason I am saying this is that the current players have proven to be good enough against the opposition at this level and the thing preventing us achieving a top six finish was our poor return of points gained AWAY from home. Had we achieved similar results at home and away from home, then there would be a case for needing new players, but as there was a massive gulf in the two, it would suggest there is a tactical/philosophical/mental/motivational issue and not an ability issue. I'm not saying new players wouldn't improve things, but I fear there's a pattern and until other factors are improved, buying new players won't guarantee any improvements away from home, and unless the points achieved away from home increase, Derby County will not achieve a top six finish, which is now the chief executive's publicised target. Clough's vvank. Could have saved yersen a lot of typing there fella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 Clough's vvank. Could have saved yersen a lot of typing there fella If I turned around and said that, then surely someone could say "well, how can he be? He's good enough at home...." lol I usually have a theory/answer/solution for many things, but the away form/results is something that just baffles me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobram Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Dont agree we need a new LB ,CB,Striker and CM what do we need a new centre mid for ? we have one of the best centre midfield in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 but the size of goals is the same wherever you play, so why are players clinical in front of one goal and not another? Just because we win a lot of home games doesn't mean we're clinical at home,just that we create a lot of chances and manage to put some away.Sometimes (eg Ipswich) we fail to put any away and lose by the odd goal.If we were more clinical we'd probably win more away games,win the home games more comfortably and convert home defeats/draws into draws/wins.Away from home,where the defence would expect to come under more pressure,we make too many silly mistakes. Naff all to do with tactics/intent,but everything to do with deficiencies at both ends.If the current incumbents can't do better,then obviously we need better players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 A bit more quality in both boxes away when other teams can get a bit of pressure on us, keep playing exactly the same way, with the lads a year older and that bit more experienced and tight as a unit - less soft goals against and a few more poached when we're on top - and we start burning teams away like we've burned them at PPS. That's why we're going up lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Well said Ramblur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Persuading Brayford we can match his level will be a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North_Stand_Ram Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Bryson goes missing away from home? Have to disagree mate. He's one of our best performers on the road. We need someone an old head somewhere but that doesn't necessarily have to be in the centre. Barkers an old head. For me personally, a striker ( Vaughan would be brilliant, a centre back (whether its a loan or a permo, they need championship experience. Also we need a new winger IMO. Coutts doesn't crack it and should be played more centrally. As Clough said he wants squad rotation next season and coutts provides that all over the midfield. Good little player to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notts_ram Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 I must reiterate. We need a better squad which means acquiring some more experienced players particularly as we are letting 7 players go. Rush is sending out mixed messages and Rambler is right better players mean our awful away form and frustrating games at home ie Ipswich and Sheff Wed spring to mind won't happen. Come on Sam Rush and the Board give Cloughie the money. Forgive me but you're stating the obvious. Losing 7 million quid a year, early bird season ticket sales down year on year and Clough's going to get a pot load of money to spend this summer? Dream on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notts_ram Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 I just don't think there will be a hod load of cash this summer, and any improvements we make on the pitch IF we do make them will be incremental at the best - not a quantum leap into the Top 6 but incremental, maybe a slight bettering of last years league position, maybe a slight improvement on our points tally, one of the other, nothing huge. And IF we obtain this incremental improvement this will be down to which players we can turn over in the transfer market this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 I must be naïve then because I renewed my season ticket. You mean we aint getting 6 in I hope I have not been mislead again. We could be in the Conference and I would renew. The alternative is not going to watch Derby - and that would be a life-altering moment I would like to put off for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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