We are now accepting mediocrity

[AndyB]

Everyone can always do more with the resources they have available but I think one needs to be realistic in this case. Just my opinion.

[Ramondo]

Have we improved seems the most asked question - impossible to say until the season ends but so far it would seem not.

Is money to blame? Yes, in that if you can buy better players then you could play better football.

Can you spend money and still fail? Yes, go ask Leicester. West Ham aren't promoted yet either.

Can you be successful without spending money? Yes, but that comes down to good management.

Is Nigel Clough a good manager? Erm......

Someone said in an earlier post that is could be argued that Nigel should have done better with the resources available. He might not have had an enormous amount in terms of resources but has he made the most of what he's got?

Okay, no manager is perfect but lets look at a few examples of Nigels management;

1) Lee Croft - widely known as a gifted player, able to beat a man, control a ball, get to the by line, do some good crowd pleaser stuff. Down side was that if you were to ask any Norwich fan then they would tell you TO A MAN that despite his trickery, the guy couldn't put in a good cross if his life depended on it. So Nigel signs him because we want people who can put good crosses in, Croft arrives and true to form can't cross his fingers, yet alone a ball. Gets dropped.

2) Dave Martin - signing new players is always a bit of a risk so it's useful to get them on loan first. We did that with Dave Martin, a pacy winger from Millwall. Had him on loan, the manager had chance to assess his ability and his personality, liked what he saw so we signed him permanently. From that point on he never played again for us - intially Cloughs explanation was that we had started using a system that didn't utilise wingers so Martin was a bit unlucky and would just have to wait for his chance. By the time we got to January that season, Clough finally concedes new system isn't working so switches back to a more conventional 4-4-2, problem being that we lack any pace on the wing. At this exact moment he then loans our pacy winger who'd been 'waiting for his chance' to Notts County and signs instead a 30 yr old midfielder with no pace and who hasn't ever played above league 1. The following season, Martin isn't even given the courtesey of a squad number and is now at Southend, a fine result for his career move to Derby whilst his former team mates at Millwall enjoy life in the Championship.

3) Green, Brayford and the RB conundrum - Okay, so we have an excellent RB in Brayford but no real cover. Brayford is injured and is expected to be out for the rest of the season. What does Clough do? he moves Green (a central midfielder) to RB where he's crap, then signs a youngster on loan to go into central midfield and leaves Bailey on the bench. Erm.... hang on, wouldn't it make more sense to loan a RB and then have the option of playing Green in his natural position? Wouldn't that bit make sense?

Those are three examples of why I am rapidly losing patience with young Master Clough. I'm all for long term planning, all for avoiding managerial merry-go-rounds and I have no idea who else would do the job but he needs to pull his finger out, lose the stubborn streak and just stop being so damned predictable and boring!

[uttoxram75]

Because one can make the argument that nigel should have done more with the resources he has been given.

Thats the point though YR. He has not been given any resources other than what he's generated in sales. He couldn't even offer Eustace more than he's on at Watford to come here last summer.

[AndyB]

Ramondo, we are over budget and can't afford to loan a right back. The only reason we have Carroll is because Spurs are paying his wages.

[Ramondo]

Okay, budget is tight. Totally get that.

If we had no goal keepers, would we stick Barker in there?

We'd be able to loan one. Extreme example I know but there's being prudent and then there's being bloody stupid.

We have put a 19 year inexperienced kid into central midfield alongside another inexperienced kid, whilst a slightly less inexperienced kid (Bailey) has been left out from building on his experience. Meanwhile, the experienced midfielder is playing at RB - and when I say he's playing there I mean he's god awful there - he's no RB, he's utter garbage so now we have a weak midfield and a out of place, useless RB. We don't need a world beating RB, just someone who is a natural in that position, someone better than Green - there must be someone out there available on loan, someone where a decent deal could be done who could 1) do better than Green (just about every RB in the country could do better) and 2) free Green to play in the position he's actually suited for.

[Catch 23]

I asked a mate of mine who supports Southampton how much it would cost to build an entire first team squad, top to bottom, that's good enough for promotion to the Premier League- not just doing a Sven and squandering millions on a few quality players. After a moment's thought, he replied about nine or ten million, absolute minimum. I don't know exactly how much Clough has had to spend, but it's no more than six million, a third of that on Barker and Shackell.

There's very few people who 'accept mediocrity', as the original poster said, it's only the love of the club and what it stands for that keeps people forking out for it. I certainly wouldn't accept it, yesterday's result was not good enough and I was pissed off for a few hours afterwards, but would this thread have been written had we gone on to win it?

[networker1884]

Ramondo, we are over budget and can't afford to loan a right back. The only reason we have Carroll is because Spurs are paying his wages.

Ha, oh come on don't blame it on money. Clough has been here 3 years, and now, we have no cover at both fullback positions...that is Clough's fault. Its not a matter of money, its a matter of incapability on Clough's part.

[Leeds Ram]

Thats the point though YR. He has not been given any resources other than what he's generated in sales. He couldn't even offer Eustace more than he's on at Watford to come here last summer.

but he has spent over 2 million this year, he bought in 10 players almost an entire team. All nigel has achieved is getting rid of expensive crap for cheap crap. I put it to any thinking man woman or child out there that in reality that isn't all that difficult to do. Our best player at the moment wasn't someone nigel bought in but Steve Davies who Jewell bought in.

[Hoggy]

Okay then, how many people would accept a defeat on Tuesday for Clough to get sacked?

Think i would take relegation to get rid of that drip

[RamOfKansas]

I

Think i would take relegation to get rid of that drip

I'll never support losing just to see a coach/manager get fired, I can disagree with a man's strategy and tactics but I never want to lose just for the sake of seeing a man fired.

[Guest]

That'll be me then!

I have to agree with the overall acceptance of mediocrity. It's really sad to see us bumbling along, with no ambition, no passion, a disinterested board and amateurish management Recruit a non league manager from Kettering or Grimsby we would be in uproar. Just because his name is Clough most seem happy to accept his incompetence. .

FFP is a crock. Not one "big" club has ever gone bust, and mark my words, none ever will. I don't want us to waste millions on transfer fees, but a little bit of cash here and there and some positive, professional management would be a start.

Clough out - ranks as one of the worst managers in our history.

GSE out - asset strippers

I have no affection for the name Clough, as in my lifetime Brian was only ever manager of the team I hate the most.

We are not a 'big club', clubs will go bust and some already have...do some research.

Also research the definition of asset strippers and please explain how this applies to people who have invested around £20million plus

[Guest]

One win away since September?

4 points short of last seasons points haul with 6 games left. May or may not improve.

[Guest]

The whole thread is about accepting mediocrity, u are saying you have not but then harp on about supporting another team when I say I am not happy about the dross being served up??

How many times have I been entertained by this current bag of players this season, I can count it on one hand, we are a poor lower league side who accepts mediocre performances.

How did we spend against other teams, I'm not sure please tell, and what the net spend is over the past 3 years whilst cutting the wage bill down?

What is the obsession with NET spend? Look at the team top of the table and tell me what there NET spend has been over the last 10 years when they have sold Walcott, Bale and Oxlade Chamberlain for massive fees.

[Ramarena]

Thats the point though YR. He has not been given any resources other than what he's generated in sales. He couldn't even offer Eustace more than he's on at Watford to come here last summer.

Your right he has almost had to cover spending with sales. But how many of the players sold did he want to keep? And the fact is that he sold these players from an already bloated squad. The

The fact remains that he has still had access to in the region of £6m. That's a fair amount of money at this level.

[Gary Teale]

Ramondo, we are over budget and can't afford to loan a right back. The only reason we have Carroll is because Spurs are paying his wages.

Where is this fact as all I can see its people's opinion on why Carroll starts.

[Shake n Bake]

I'm willing to accept mediocrity again for this season if it means Derby County won't go the way of Portsmouth in seasons to come.

[Gary Teale]

I'm willing to accept mediocrity again for this season if it means Derby County won't go the way of Portsmouth in seasons to come.

Every club that show a bit more ambition than us dont end up like pompey though. We arent demanding spending 30k a week on a players wages, just more than we are doing now and investing more than they are. Every club above us isnt looking like going bust and they all dont have a mega rich owner

[Ramondo]

Every club that show a bit more ambition than us dont end up like pompey though. We arent demanding spending 30k a week on a players wages, just more than we are doing now and investing more than they are. Every club above us isnt looking like going bust and they all dont have a mega rich owner

That's the issue though isn't it?

You don't want a massive wage spending, you don't want millions spent on transfers - just more than we are doing.

How do you quantify 'more'? When does 'more' become 'enough'?

Here's a statistic - most Championship clubs are losing money year on year, most premier league clubs are losing even more money year on year. Derby have been losing money year on year.

So when fans say they only want a bit 'more' spent - at what point does 'more' become too much?

[inglorious02]

I'm sure there are managers out there who would have done a worse job than Clough if they had been put in charge. However, the flip side of that is that there must be managers out there who could have done a lot better. Fans would have been on the managers back before now if his name was not Clough.

Crystal Palace were in administration the other year weren't they? Now they have a younger less experienced manager than Clough, who has them above the Derby in the table and has taken them to the semi final of a major cup competition.

There are better managers out there who can work on a tight budget if the board is prepared to get them.

[Ramshankered]

Must admit I'm getting a bit fed up with the status quo right now.

I understand the position Clough is in, the position the board are in, and the way football is becoming more 'realistic' in the way money is thrown about - but dammit, supporting DCFC just isn't much fun at the moment!

This will be the third year straight of "poor to average" football and I'm getting a little bored of waiting for that elusive decent season where we at least finish top 10!

For the record I'm not 'falling out of love' with DCFC or anything like that, but I'd just like a genuinely positive year with more highs than lows - I don't think that's too much to ask after nearly 3 years of pretty bog-standard footy!