Mildly Pleased

[Ambitious]

my point is we need to add some real quality to important areas of the squad to challenge for the playoffs and automatic promotion. We need a cm who is creative and can take a good set piece e.g. Idiakez and we need a striker who can bang in the goals and is a real handful. I think a relatively small, sensible investment will push the club that extra bit further, I'm not talking about 8-10 million, I'm talking about 4 million which isn't going to bankrupt us and could give us that extra lift.

Idiakez and Rasiak circa 2012 then? both of them were on frees... use the scouting network to it's full advantage and at this level you'll never have to spend big! If you keep expecting the 4million to come, you'll only ever be disappointed and it isn't needed! I'm disappointed with the scouting network here, although it's personal it could be stretched to central europe at least!

[ramjam]

Totally agree with this post - and like many on this thread I've been saying this for a couple of seasons.

The key word being "sustainable"

To stay in the Championship and be "relatively" competitive whilst shrinking the budget and having a compelte change in the way the club operates finanically is no mean feet. Yes, a few decisions here or there are dodgy, but overall this is a pretty goos effort.

Young Ram - I appreciate what you're saying and agree in reality I think we are on a couple of players for properly competing for top 6...but you say £4m like it's not very much! In the Premier League less than £60m was spent in total and not many teams spent £4m+

Yes players are available (Maynard etc.) but the wages they're on must be silly...I heard Ravel Morrison will be on £65k p/w if West Ham go up.

I say more of the same, some solid loans, nicely midtable, some moderate summer investment ready to go at top 6 next year

[Leeds Ram]

Idiakez and Rasiak circa 2012 then? both of them were on frees... use the scouting network to it's full advantage and at this level you'll never have to spend big! If you keep expecting the 4million to come, you'll only ever be disappointed and it isn't needed! I'm disappointed with the scouting network here, although it's personal it could be stretched to central europe at least!

I used idiakez as an example of the type and calibre of player we need, and because our scouting network is so small and we don't have contacts overseas the odds are we won't find a player like that for free anymore. I'm not saying they have to be big money signings, 2 million was an estimate of what a player like that nowadays would cost, especially with our scouting network. If we can get someone like them in for free then great or less than 2 million brilliant, if not maybe we need to look at the possibility of spending a reasonable amount on quality.

I know good players can be bought on the cheap, I suggested we buy holt and lambert before they were brilliant in the championship. I have seen it done with Burley, but Burley had contacts and a great eye for a flare player which I'm not totally convinced nigel and his staff have to the same degree.

[Leeds Ram]

Totally agree with this post - and like many on this thread I've been saying this for a couple of seasons.

The key word being "sustainable"

To stay in the Championship and be "relatively" competitive whilst shrinking the budget and having a compelte change in the way the club operates finanically is no mean feet. Yes, a few decisions here or there are dodgy, but overall this is a pretty goos effort.

Young Ram - I appreciate what you're saying and agree in reality I think we are on a couple of players for properly competing for top 6...but you say £4m like it's not very much! In the Premier League less than £60m was spent in total and not many teams spent £4m+

Yes players are available (Maynard etc.) but the wages they're on must be silly...I heard Ravel Morrison will be on £65k p/w if West Ham go up.

I say more of the same, some solid loans, nicely midtable, some moderate summer investment ready to go at top 6 next year

Every analysis I have heard have said that this window was a freak occurance, mixed with the recession and that many of the players who were available no-one really wanted. I'm not suggesting going out like Leicester, but we do need a couple of extra players who we know can do a great job for us. We really need some creativity in center midfield which we currently lack and I'm not saying we have to pay big for that, but I think we are at a little bit of a crossroads. Sooner or later a midsize premiership club will pick up on our assets e.g. brayford and most probably shackell, then we'll have to start again rebuilding the team. I would rather add a couple of players in the summer and progress rather than wait for a few years to see our team picked off and having to rebuild again.

[bcnram]

Im just amazed so many fans are so happy that we are 12th in the championship and all them disgracefull teams above us in the champ and prem over spending and about to go bust. We have got to the stage when being very average in the second tier is good enough for the majority of Derby County fans.

I don't think that many Derby fans would say that being average is good enough. What I think the majority would probably say is that steady improvement throughout the club and building to success is very acceptable.

[ramjam]

Every analysis I have heard have said that this window was a freak occurance, mixed with the recession and that many of the players who were available no-one really wanted. I'm not suggesting going out like Leicester, but we do need a couple of extra players who we know can do a great job for us. We really need some creativity in center midfield which we currently lack and I'm not saying we have to pay big for that, but I think we are at a little bit of a crossroads. Sooner or later a midsize premiership club will pick up on our assets e.g. brayford and most probably shackell, then we'll have to start again rebuilding the team. I would rather add a couple of players in the summer and progress rather than wait for a few years to see our team picked off and having to rebuild again.

Again I dont disagree that we need players - I agree with what you say about what/where we need additions. But your hopes and expectations just aren't linked to financial reality or credibility.

As for January windows: 2011 – £225m, 2010 – £30m, 2009 – £170m, 2008 – £175m, 2007 – £60m, 2006 – £70m, 2005 – £50m, 2004 – £50m, 2003 – £35m

Looks like 2012 was normal...its the big ones that are strange...with 2011 thrown out of loop by Man City.

Again - I agree with everything you say regarding players, but you have to try and have realistic expectations otherwise, like as previously stated on this thread, you'll be dissapointed

[Leeds Ram]

Again I dont disagree that we need players - I agree with what you say about what/where we need additions. But your hopes and expectations just aren't linked to financial reality or credibility.

As for January windows: 2011 – £225m, 2010 – £30m, 2009 – £170m, 2008 – £175m, 2007 – £60m, 2006 – £70m, 2005 – £50m, 2004 – £50m, 2003 – £35m

Looks like 2012 was normal...its the big ones that are strange...with 2011 thrown out of loop by Man City.

Again - I agree with everything you say regarding players, but you have to try and have realistic expectations otherwise, like as previously stated on this thread, you'll be dissapointed

I do have realistic expectations, I don't expect we will sign these types of players but I hope we will. Maybe the spending in the windows got out of control but it has been a slow janurary. I don't think financially it is impossible with the investors we have, I think we have the capacity to make this small short term investment, Do I hope we can get these players in the summer yes, do I think it will no. Just like much of derby county I live in hope that something will happen.

[ElBeef]

Not that i care a jot about other clubs but as a lover of Football it would be interesting to see where Fester and West Ham end up in 3 years compared to the Rams. Its just like playing a computer game and you get some cash...spend spend spend on players that are good for other teams but may not in the long run improve yours.

I hope we can continue to build and push on because i would love to see the likes of Braford, Barker, Shackell, Bailey and Ward etc stay with the team for a number of years. This will only happen if we sustain our position, if not then these guys could end up leaving in two years time.

Without a billionaire oil tycoon from so unamable country coming in and throwing his money about, how will this club progress under any other Board/investor?. No im not American ethier (hehe)

And do you think they have done more for the club in this period of time than Pearson did in his?

[p.shilton]

Im just amazed so many fans are so happy that we are 12th in the championship and all them disgracefull teams above us in the champ and prem over spending and about to go bust. We have got to the stage when being very average in the second tier is good enough for the majority of Derby County fans.

By "happy" we are for now as it is a continuous progression. We are significantly better this season than last and hope to be significantly better again next season. We are happy with the way the club is being run- will we be happy if we are still mid table in the champ in 5 years? No. Its progression- not boom or bust. The other teams that are throwing cash at it may or may not have success but for me slowly, slowly catchie monkey (I didn't know you spoke spanish) is the way forward.

[Gary Teale]

By "happy" we are for now as it is a continuous progression. We are significantly better this season than last and hope to be significantly better again next season. We are happy with the way the club is being run- will we be happy if we are still mid table in the champ in 5 years? No. Its progression- not boom or bust. The other teams that are throwing cash at it may or may not have success but for me slowly, slowly catchie monkey (I didn't know you spoke spanish) is the way forward.

Continuous progression, we have finished 18th, 14th, 19th and are currently 12th after a fantastic month of results. What is all this boom or bust rubbish that people seem obsessed with, pompey apart no one is close to going bust up in the top few divisions. Are all the top 10 being run so badly then? Most of them sides have come down, sorted there finances out and are pucshing on again, we are still plodding around mid table. Who are these build it slowly slowly clubs that have been successfull? I see swansea maybe but they also went out and spent some cash to take them to the next level.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

You could also say the same about Southampton, West ham, Cardiff, Boro, Brum, Blackpool, Reading etc. We were not looking like going bust and feel that the accounts at this club are becoming the most important thing to some fans. There is fine lines in this league as we all know im sure if we gave clough some proper money to spend say 3-4 million we could be in the mix more than we are and our squad wouldnt be wafer thin. At the end of the day the best players want the better wages and we could still keep with the philosophy of buying younger hungry players. We would be a different team with say Hooper, sharp, salmon etc who we were after and then been priced out of it. Clough even said the other week he would have been hoping for top 6 if we had bought in all the players he wanted last summer but again we didnt.

We didn't bring those players in because we couldn't give away the expensive dross we accumulated. Yes, Nigel wanted them but that aways hinged on getting the players out. Why? because we now have a wage cap that needs to be inplace. We have just got the decks clear after two/three years. Now lets see who comes in next summer.

[Gary Teale]

We didn't bring those players in because we couldn't give away the expensive dross we accumulated. Yes, Nigel wanted them but that aways hinged on getting the players out. Why? because we now have a wage cap that needs to be inplace. We have just got the decks clear after two/three years. Now lets see who comes in next summer.

The other sides who have come down have had expensive dross as well. I'm guessing your referring to savage, Leacock, bywater, Pearson and leacock. Even though clough gave Pearson and bywater extended deals. Would have upping the wage bill for the right player really have done us that much financial harm? Again more focus making money and not a good team

[Ambitious]

Continuous progression, we have finished 18th, 14th, 19th and are currently 12th after a fantastic month of results. What is all this boom or bust rubbish that people seem obsessed with, pompey apart no one is close to going bust up in the top few divisions. Are all the top 10 being run so badly then? Most of them sides have come down, sorted there finances out and are pucshing on again, we are still plodding around mid table. Who are these build it slowly slowly clubs that have been successfull? I see swansea maybe but they also went out and spent some cash to take them to the next level.

That means the board investing though, which they have shown to only cover costs rather than pay out on the playing squad also. It's by no means exciting but we could do what Forest did, make them pull out their financial backing and then realise no-one is in the market for a football side!

Looking at Forest makes me happy that we have the americans, and didn't get Gadsby back in!

[p.shilton]

Continuous progression, we have finished 18th, 14th, 19th and are currently 12th after a fantastic month of results. What is all this boom or bust rubbish that people seem obsessed with, pompey apart no one is close to going bust up in the top few divisions. Are all the top 10 being run so badly then? Most of them sides have come down, sorted there finances out and are pucshing on again, we are still plodding around mid table. Who are these build it slowly slowly clubs that have been successfull? I see swansea maybe but they also went out and spent some cash to take them to the next level.

Progression isn't borne out by league position alone, surely you can see that? The finances have been sorted out over the past few years whilst maintaining our League status and this has led to progression on the pitch. I now expect the league positions to steadily improve. Marking progress by simply looking at the league position is what has got football into the mess it is in at the moment. You are clearly looking for an argument that the club are stagnating and not ambitious etc- look at the finances, it simply isn't true. I will agree that we haven't been treated to the best football over the past seasons and at times it has been hard going but staying in the division whilst dramatically cutting costs as we have is remarkable. I wish people would give the board and Nigel a bit more credit.

Now we are in a healthier position financially I hope to see a modest investment in the summer.

[p.shilton]

The other sides who have come down have had expensive dross as well. I'm guessing your referring to savage, Leacock, bywater, Pearson and leacock. Even though clough gave Pearson and bywater extended deals. Would have upping the wage bill for the right player really have done us that much financial harm? Again more focus making money and not a good team

You cant have a wage cap in place and then throw it out of the window for one player- how would the other players react to that? You can only be on 4 grand a week but there is this one player we really want to sign so when you have all agreed to take 4 grand we will bring him in on 7 . I am sure the spirit in the dressing room would be great-also noone would sign extensions on the 4 grand a week as they would want to be earning 7 too and we would lose players for free or cheap (ala Commons and probably Green).

[ramblur]

That means the board investing though, which they have shown to only cover costs rather than pay out on the playing squad also. It's by no means exciting but we could do what Forest did, make them pull out their financial backing and then realise no-one is in the market for a football side!

Looking at Forest makes me happy that we have the americans, and didn't get Gadsby back in!

Yep,we should all be so glad we don't have the £5m element of the "£5m net" to spend on the two or three decent players we need.

Of course,the LOG were responsible for posting the first profit we'd seen in ages in 07/08,even after hefty amortisation charges (unless you can show me how the new owners had any influence on it,other than making it worse than it could have been).The net debt at 30/6/08 of £21.811m is also a fairer representation of their efforts in this direction -again,feel free to show me the influence our owners had on this,other than negative.Indeed,if one were to reverse the January madness,the net debtat 30/6/08 would probably have been lower than that registered at 30/6/10 (£19.1m) -so much for the great debt reducers.

[Gary Teale]

People keep going on about how much better off we are off the pitch but what does that really matter to me? Do I get cheaper football? Do I get a better team to watch? All it means is the balance sheet looks better but I'm a fan not a shareholder. My support is the football team not financial. As I've put before I'm not asking us to throw 40million at it and bust us but the balance sheet looking slightly worse and a bit more investment in the team wouldn't do any harm.

[derbydan]

Could try being grateful we have a stable club that is doing well in a tough league without having the embarresment of daily stories in the press about not being able to pay players, winding up orders ect or worrying about the fact if promotion is not gained the club is up **** creek

[Ambitious]

Yep,we should all be so glad we don't have the £5m element of the "£5m net" to spend on the two or three decent players we need.

Of course,the LOG were responsible for posting the first profit we'd seen in ages in 07/08,even after hefty amortisation charges (unless you can show me how the new owners had any influence on it,other than making it worse than it could have been).The net debt at 30/6/08 of £21.811m is also a fairer representation of their efforts in this direction -again,feel free to show me the influence our owners had on this,other than negative.Indeed,if one were to reverse the January madness,the net debtat 30/6/08 would probably have been lower than that registered at 30/6/10 (£19.1m) -so much for the great debt reducers.

So, you're telling me that our board are not cutting the debt at all, nor are they investing? obviously you have better insight than me but the problem is, as previously said there isn't a lot of people out there looking to waste money on football clubs, bunch that together with we're still making losses we really don't want them to pull ALL their backing out, like what has happened at Forest.

No one is saying they don't want money to be spent, far from it... at the minute it's in 3 categories in the fans.

Category A - which I would class myself in.

Acceptant of the way the club is being run, obviously big name signings would be nice but there is no need for that and the board are reluctant to pay for them, as there is no interest in the club... I've learned to accept it, must admit it's a lot easier when we're not directly in a relegation battle!

Category B - The goldfish

Most of our fans are in this, the people that seem to forget themselves whenever a transfer window comes up and get agitated because we're not offering money for players, we're cutting our cloth accordingly and saying things like would only cost 2million for blah blah and 2million for blah blah, for the life of me can't remember EVER spending 2million on one single player since we've been in the championship (could be wrong) think Hulse at 1.25million probably our biggest!

Category C - the dreamers, and ergo the moaners.

The people that believe we should be competing with West Ham, Southampton...etc financially and will scream the house down until the current owners are gone, these people I class as the most ambitious because they believe their is a line of people gaggin' to come in and make Derby into a super power in the footballing world, the ironic thing being is that people laugh at Forest fans for being exactly like this... radio moan in is full of these types, one person said 'now is a fantastic time to get Lambert or Sharp in' as both of them players are obviously gaggin' to come here!

I think reality slips away from majority of football fans and a lot of Derby fans.

[ramblur]

So, you're telling me that our board are not cutting the debt at all, nor are they investing? obviously you have better insight than me but the problem is, as previously said there isn't a lot of people out there looking to waste money on football clubs, bunch that together with we're still making losses we really don't want them to pull ALL their backing out, like what has happened at Forest.

No one is saying they don't want money to be spent, far from it... at the minute it's in 3 categories in the fans.

Category A - which I would class myself in.

Acceptant of the way the club is being run, obviously big name signings would be nice but there is no need for that and the board are reluctant to pay for them, as there is no interest in the club... I've learned to accept it, must admit it's a lot easier when we're not directly in a relegation battle!

Category B - The goldfish

Most of our fans are in this, the people that seem to forget themselves whenever a transfer window comes up and get agitated because we're not offering money for players, we're cutting our cloth accordingly and saying things like would only cost 2million for blah blah and 2million for blah blah, for the life of me can't remember EVER spending 2million on one single player since we've been in the championship (could be wrong) think Hulse at 1.25million probably our biggest!

Category C - the dreamers, and ergo the moaners.

The people that believe we should be competing with West Ham, Southampton...etc financially and will scream the house down until the current owners are gone, these people I class as the most ambitious because they believe their is a line of people gaggin' to come in and make Derby into a super power in the footballing world, the ironic thing being is that people laugh at Forest fans for being exactly like this... radio moan in is full of these types, one person said 'now is a fantastic time to get Lambert or Sharp in' as both of them players are obviously gaggin' to come here!

I think reality slips away from majority of football fans and a lot of Derby fans.

I've never said they've not invested-far from it.They've invested fairly heavily,but unfortunately it was squandered.As far as the debt goes,I prefer to examine the cold,hard facts within audited accounts rather than listen to the yap.The yap told you of a snapshot taken at one particular day of a year -it neglected to tell you about the bank of cash that was to come their way later in that financial year,along with the forthcoming chute payments.

Much is made of the "revolving loan" not being 'real' debt.Let's get this into perspective-if they were to repay the £15m every year and simply reborrow straight away,would we then be totally debt free? (and if not,why not?).