Mildly Pleased

[Guest]

Ambitious, how do you know there are no buyers ?

Im not for one minute saying there is, but just wondering ?

[Martyn]

Due to lack of evidence for their existence?

Sorry, too much time on the evolution thread.

[ramblur]

Firstly,let's turn to a matter of fact.Where have I said that the Americans are totally to blame for the Prem debacle? I've noticed that in the past you've been very good at skipping questions,so there's your first test.

You were the one that introduced "whipping boys" and "humiliation" into the argument,and I was merely pointing out that the situation didn't change one iota after the Americans came in and squandered a lot of money (nor did their lavish signings do much for us in the lower division).They took the 'credit' for this in their attempt to rebut Gadsby's 08 claims on investment,and this was later rubber stamped by AP saying that the whole thing was a mistake and that the owners "wanted to make an impact".Hope that's clear enough for you.

Where have I praised the LOG for taking us to "some imaginary level of greatness"?They appear to be your words only.Whilst everyone knows the season was awful,it did at least provide a financial windfall that should have been built on rather better.

It's a pity we don't have the money that was squandered in Jan 08 now.

My references to Earnshaw and Miller merely arose because you were making derogatory remarks about them.I was pointing out that,however bad they were,they had a reasonable resale value.

As I don't like dodging questions,I've just noticed I didn't tackle the curious "which camp" one.I fail to see that my belief that the current team needs investment in any way contradicts my contention that the Jan 08 spending to "make an impact" was pointless.I didn't criticise the following summer's spending (ie the need to spend),but have no problems with fans blaming Jewell for the quality of the signings.I don't however blame him for Jan 08 because AP told us he didn't want to spend then,and would have preferred to wait till summer.He was therefore placed in the invidious position of having to find players who might make an immediate impact,yet would be willing to strut their stuff in the Championship.

Whilst Jewell could be blamed for the summer signings,it was the owners who set the wage policy.AP openly said that the bill would have to be trimmed the following year if we failed to gain promotion,and hence it was unsustainable without same.He also said that it was too high even for that year and that they'd have to do something about it.As far as I can remember we took on additional loans,culminating in the expensive Varney,yet I can't remember too much outgoing traffic which would both cancel out the incomings and eat into an 'over budget' position.

[Ambitious]

Ambitious, how do you know there are no buyers ?

Im not for one minute saying there is, but just wondering ?

Due to the rumour of 20 championship clubs are for sale(according to the reports) 1 have been brought in the past year or so... others rumoured like Portsmouth and Forest but never materialised.

If someone wanted us bad enough, I don't see why the Americans would stand in their way... on the basis of that, I guess... no buyers.

[Asanovic]

Due to the rumour of 20 championship clubs are for sale(according to the reports) 1 have been brought in the past year or so... others rumoured like Portsmouth and Forest but never materialised.

If someone wanted us bad enough, I don't see why the Americans would stand in their way... on the basis of that, I guess... no buyers.

Didn't Gadsby write an open letter stating his desire to take back control? And they stood in his way?

[Ambitious]

Didn't Gadsby write an open letter stating his desire to take back control? And they stood in his way?

He apparently offered a small amount to the Americans for the club, who aren't going to give it away for free.

My point is, if someone came in with a 100million pound bid for Derby County, the Americans would sell... they'd have their money back and more which they're here for, but that hasn't happened. The Americans are about making money, and the club making money... therefore they're reluctant to keep making annual losses which they're cutting down.

Gadsby offered around 5million from what I remember. I would guess (maybe wrong) we're for sale for 100million, so we're waiting for a buyer also didn't Pearson go out and look for a new buyer before he left?

[ramblur]

He apparently offered a small amount to the Americans for the club, who aren't going to give it away for free.

My point is, if someone came in with a 100million pound bid for Derby County, the Americans would sell... they'd have their money back and more which they're here for, but that hasn't happened. The Americans are about making money, and the club making money... therefore they're reluctant to keep making annual losses which they're cutting down.

Gadsby offered around 5million from what I remember. I would guess (maybe wrong) we're for sale for 100million, so we're waiting for a buyer also didn't Pearson go out and look for a new buyer before he left?

I think you're getting mixed up with £5m net he proposed for funding transfers.Purely from memory,I think the bid was about £39m.How on earth would you think the club is currently worth £100m?

[Andydram62]

I would like to ask one question of the supporters of this board and that is this, how do you propose we hang on to our more talented players with a wage cap and no serious investment in the playing staff ?

Do you suggest that by mearly appealing to their better nature that they will forgo the opportunity to earn more money or have to have some success elsewhere ?

Without flexibility in the wage structure to reward talent you will always lose your best people whatever business you're in.

I find the lack of ambition amongst current rams fans pitiful and its one of the reasons i don't miss going to PP anymore.

I was thinking on saturday about a 4th round game i went to about 25 years ago when we were in Div 3, we took about 8,000 to Sheff utd and did them 1-0. The atmosphere was fantastic and there was no lack of ambition amongst the fans that day despite our straightened circumstances.

I read on one of the forums the other day somone describing supporting the Rams as a rollercoaster ride, i'm afraid its now like one of those kiddie rides that just goes round and round very slowly going nowhere.

" we love you sustainable business model we do" " we love balance sheet we do" COYR"s

Hi could'nt agree with you more it just goes to show how Glick & co's constant spin has brainwashed fans into believing football is all about balance sheets, cheap or free players, low wages (relatively, you pay peanuts you get mostly monkey's ie buxton, Doyle e.c.t.).

The football we play is totally 1 dimentional and when we come up against teams that out play us at our only style of (ie Barnsley, Coventry away and others) we do not have the players with the skill or talent anywhere in the current squad to do anthing about it.

How long do fans think it will be until players like Barker, Shackell and maybe Ward start to realise that like Paul Green they have only got a limited number of years left to achieve something and the boards lack of real investment in the team will mean that by the time Derby achieve anything, their playing day's will be over and all the youg talent we are producing will be taken by other more ambitious teams.

Derby need to invest in 4 or 5 quality players as soon as possible, its is no good Glick and the board keep saying top six next season every year expecting the fans to keep buying season tickets, even the brain washed are going to wake up to the spin sooner or later,

Derby are at best a mid table championship side, with a paper thin squad and who while in most games they play nobody can fault their effort its plain to see that we are woefully short of any real skill or flair.

Surely a club like Derby Who are at least in the top 20% supported in Britain should be able to assemble a squad capable of producing a more competative and entertaining and consistant side that can play well for 90 mins and not just 45 mins or less.

I just cant understand why some fans seem to be willing to accept the current mediocraty and actually think that playing at most 10 or 15 mins of acceptable football per game is somehow good enough.

I REMEMBER WHEN BEING A DERBY FAN USED TO MEAN SOMETHING, and we would not of been satisfied with what this side are producing and actually believing it when told that we are playing well and that this is good football.

[Ambitious]

I think you're getting mixed up with £5m net he proposed for funding transfers.Purely from memory,I think the bid was about £39m.How on earth would you think the club is currently worth £100m?

Didn't the Americans buy the club for 50million? then they've paid out 25million (or so they've said) so that's 75million there, they're going to want a profit on what they've spent, so the asking price will be between 75-100million.

[Ambitious]

Hi could'nt agree with you more it just goes to show how Glick & co's constant spin has brainwashed fans into believing football is all about balance sheets, cheap or free players, low wages (relatively, you pay peanuts you get mostly monkey's ie buxton, Doyle e.c.t.).

The football we play is totally 1 dimentional and when we come up against teams that out play us at our only style of (ie Barnsley, Coventry away and others) we do not have the players with the skill or talent anywhere in the current squad to do anthing about it.

How long do fans think it will be until players like Barker, Shackell and maybe Ward start to realise that like Paul Green they have only got a limited number of years left to achieve something and the boards lack of real investment in the team will mean that by the time Derby achieve anything, their playing day's will be over and all the youg talent we are producing will be taken by other more ambitious teams.

Derby need to invest in 4 or 5 quality players as soon as possible, its is no good Glick and the board keep saying top six next season every year expecting the fans to keep buying season tickets, even the brain washed are going to wake up to the spin sooner or later,

Derby are at best a mid table championship side, with a paper thin squad and who while in most games they play nobody can fault their effort its plain to see that we are woefully short of any real skill or flair.

Surely a club like Derby Who are at least in the top 20% supported in Britain should be able to assemble a squad capable of producing a more competative and entertaining and consistant side that can play well for 90 mins and not just 45 mins or less.

I just cant understand why some fans seem to be willing to accept the current mediocraty and actually think that playing at most 10 or 15 mins of acceptable football per game is somehow good enough.

I REMEMBER WHEN BEING A DERBY FAN USED TO MEAN SOMETHING, and we would not of been satisfied with what this side are producing and actually believing it when told that we are playing well and that this is good football.

It has been said, you can either buy the club yourself, perhaps you don't have the money to do that, but you could also start a protest (worked wonders for Forest) or just not bother turning up!

Nothing against you, but come on this argument is the majority of threads on this board and it's getting boring. I genuinely don't know what people expect to happen, the only people it's annoying is people like me that just wants to enjoy the current season as we've been competitive in the most part, you can achieve nothing by moaning online.

I would suggest starting a protest, which worked wonders at Nottingham their chairman pulled the financial blanket from under their feet and now their future is selling players to become sustainable, which will more than likely include a relegation to league one and a good period of time down there also.

[curb]

Didn't the Americans buy the club for 50million?

No

[Martyn]

Didn't the Americans buy the club for 50million? then they've paid out 25million (or so they've said) so that's 75million there, they're going to want a profit on what they've spent, so the asking price will be between 75-100million.

That was the "value" of the deal, it was more like £24m for shares & working capital + taking on c.£25m total debt.

Can't remember the figure of what they've put in since, but ramblur will probably have that to hand.

[ramblur]

Didn't the Americans buy the club for 50million? then they've paid out 25million (or so they've said) so that's 75million there, they're going to want a profit on what they've spent, so the asking price will be between 75-100million.

Hard facts time:-

Their initial 93% holding cost £14.808m. Source:- General Sports Derby (UK) Ltd accounts 07/08.

Note 28 (final page) "Acquisition of subsidiaries" :- Cash consideration £11.088m ,Deferred consideration £3.720m

Validated by "Company balance sheet" (page 8) :- Investment £14.808 less creditor £3.720m,giving shareholder funds of £11.088m (being the amount of the initial cash consideration). The £3.72m was paid the following year.

Eventual purchase of Pearson's stake £1.12m. Source:- GS Derby (UK) Ltd accounts 09/10.

"Consolidated cash flow statement" (page10) "Purchase of subsidiary undertaking" £1.12m

From the 08/09 and 09/10 DCFC accounts (cash flow statement) you will find that capital was injected into the club of £7.7m and £6.6m respectively.The directors' report for 09/10 indicates a further injection of £5.6m for the following year (10/11).Some confusion arises here because the reports for both Gellaw and GS quote figures of £6.6m.I believe the difference to relate to AP buyout,but will verify when next accounts come out.

To pull the whole thing together,go to GS Derby (UK) Ltd accounts for 09/10 "Company balance sheet" (page 9).

"Investments" £30.291m -if you add together all the elements mentioned earlier (total acquisition c£16m +£7.7m +6.6m) you'll see the figure validated.If you then add on the £5.6m,the total becomes £35.891m (an extra £1m may be added if you believe the figure should be £6.6m).Some may also like to add on the £1.7m GS loan,but I've a strong suspicion this has been repaid,which would make it little different to a short term commercial loan.

If you've been working on figures given on another forum,ask where in the accounts such figures come from (and watch posters disappear).

[Ambitious]

Hard facts time:-

Their initial 93% holding cost £14.808m. Source:- General Sports Derby (UK) Ltd accounts 07/08.

Note 28 (final page) "Acquisition of subsidiaries" :- Cash consideration £11.088m ,Deferred consideration £3.720m

Validated by "Company balance sheet" (page 8) :- Investment £14.808 less creditor £3.720m,giving shareholder funds of £11.088m (being the amount of the initial cash consideration). The £3.72m was paid the following year.

Eventual purchase of Pearson's stake £1.12m. Source:- GS Derby (UK) Ltd accounts 09/10.

"Consolidated cash flow statement" (page10) "Purchase of subsidiary undertaking" £1.12m

From the 08/09 and 09/10 DCFC accounts (cash flow statement) you will find that capital was injected into the club of £7.7m and £6.6m respectively.The directors' report for 09/10 indicates a further injection of £5.6m for the following year (10/11).Some confusion arises here because the reports for both Gellaw and GS quote figures of £6.6m.I believe the difference to relate to AP buyout,but will verify when next accounts come out.

To pull the whole thing together,go to GS Derby (UK) Ltd accounts for 09/10 "Company balance sheet" (page 9).

"Investments" £30.291m -if you add together all the elements mentioned earlier (total acquisition c£16m +£7.7m +6.6m) you'll see the figure validated.If you then add on the £5.6m,the total becomes £35.891m (an extra £1m may be added if you believe the figure should be £6.6m).Some may also like to add on the £1.7m GS loan,but I've a strong suspicion this has been repaid,which would make it little different to a short term commercial loan.

If you've been working on figures given on another forum,ask where in the accounts such figures come from (and watch posters disappear).

I only based my opinion on what was written in the paper when they brought the club, obviously you have the facts and in no way am I in support or against the board, its not really been an issue with me.. I think they have pros and cons, just like every board in the championship, my argument is against people banging the same drum and THINK it's easy to get rid of the americans and get someone in that's going to spunk loads of money on the first team, it's just not going to happen and we go through the same bullshit every transfer window!

I'd love any sort of money to be spent on the first team, really would but it isn't happening and i've come to terms with that we're becoming self sustainable and that means we haven't got room in the budget to spend, so why did anyone expect it? And because they expected it, they're now disappointed... Just be realistic within our means!

[ramblur]

I only based my opinion on what was written in the paper when they brought the club, obviously you have the facts and in no way am I in support or against the board, its not really been an issue with me.. I think they have pros and cons, just like every board in the championship, my argument is against people banging the same drum and THINK it's easy to get rid of the americans and get someone in that's going to spunk loads of money on the first team, it's just not going to happen and we go through the same bullshit every transfer window!

I'd love any sort of money to be spent on the first team, really would but it isn't happening and i've come to terms with that we're becoming self sustainable and that means we haven't got room in the budget to spend, so why did anyone expect it? And because they expected it, they're now disappointed... Just be realistic within our means!

I can see where you're coming from-I too am working on the assumption that there is to be no further capital investment in players.I still believe that Nigel may get us up in those circumstances,but it's likely to take a couple more years (and assumes he gets everything from sales).My one worry is a further slippage in S/T numbers,which may lead to a vicious circle (if we're not already there).

If there is to be no more inward investment,I wish they'd just be up front and say so.We might not like it,but at least there's a chance we might all pull together and stop the in fighting.One of the things that annoys me most is the claim that Nigel only wants to buy low budget players/doesn't know how to spend decent money etc.At least it would put a stop to all of that.Unfortunately,even if it were true,I can't see them coming out and admitting it.

If,on the other hand,there is money available,then please let them spend it in the summer (and perhaps arrest declining S/Ts as a by product)

I produced the breakdown in figures not just to refute the figure you came up with,but to show those who claim there's been no investment that they are palpably wrong.Some guy from London on the phone in claimed this and it makes me just as angry as with those who inflate the figures (not a dig at you,as you've disclosed your source).Twenty odd million is a significant wad and indicates to me that they came in with good intentions-just a shame that the first 18 months went so badly.I'm convinced that if they could rewind the clock and start again with the benefit of experience,things would turn out completely differently.It may surprise some to learn that,including my time on the DET,I've never once called for their removal.