uttoxram75 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Out of interest Uttox (or anyone else who was around for both) who do you think would have won a triple crown tournament... Cox's championship winning team Smiths promotion team Billy's play off team I am going for Sir Arthur's team, just because Bobby, Gee and Gregory were all unplayable. Impossible to compare really so i'll go for which I enjoyed the most! Billy's team were strong, workmanlike and hard to beat, apart from the play offs never really acheived that magic phwoar factor for me. The play off final was excellent day all round, but 3rd out of the list! The bald eagle - Stimac, VDL etc, awful start to the season but it built up slowly and steadily. The palace game was awesome, 2nd! Arthur - back to back promotions, Bobby, Phil, the momentum, the away days. Yep, got to agree, for sheer enjoyment and exhilaration. No1. Atm i'd settle for any tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredbear73 Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Here, here to that. Happy days. I always feel Arthur Cox isn't given the credit he deserves for his role in our history. His Derby teams and record always suffer by comparison with the Clough and Mackay era, and then of course the Smith era which came after and was maybe more spectacular, tied up as it was with the move to the new stadium and so on Nevertheless, I loved those times. It felt like we were on a journey of constant improvement that was going to take us right back to the very top. And as I have said many times, if it weren't for the Maxwell meltdown I honestly think Cox would have had us challenging for the title by about 1990. He himself said that we were at a crossroads after finishing 5th and he was proved right. If the money had been there for the likes of Ray Houghton that he wanted to sign, we woul have goner on. Sadly, by the time Lionel Pickering came in and untied the purse strings it was too late and the impetus had been lost Never mind, it was still a brilliant time. Mark Wright, Dean Saunders and McMinn, but also Mickey Lewis and Jeff Chandler and Charlie Palmer. All players that were just right for the stage we were at at the time and all players you could relate to. Favourite of all our Bobby Davison of course. I'm a bit of a jumpers for goal posts man me! And how many did he go in for that we didnt get such as Ray Houghton etc -went to Liverpool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 The championship winning season under Sir Arthur was a million times better than that under Smith or King Billy. Billy's football was effective, but I rarely enjoyed it, certainly not to the extent of the Cox or TBE sides. We played a fair amount of champagne football under TBE, particularly when we had the likes of Stimac, Asa, Baiano, Eranio, Wanchope etc all playing together. That being said, the Cox era is special for me. I started following Derby during the promotion season from the old second division to the first. The Derby vs Stoke games always have a bit of needle for our family as mum's side are from Stoke, and Dad's side are from Derby. Born in Stoke myself, but being a rebellious 10 year old I decided to support Derby when the game at the Victoria Ground came around. Good call as we won 2-0 and went on to win the championship. Some of the players that we had at that time, and some of the football we played was brilliant, and I can't think that I've ever enjoyed watching Derby so much as those days, even given the champagne football of TBE era. Still remember the Arsenal game at the BBG in their double-winning season, and that screamer from Phil Gee - Graham Richards' commentary, brilliant. And probably my favourite Derby goal of all-time, Saunders raping Steve Bruce for pace on the halfway line and then taking the ball to the touchline before floating over a cross that completely took out Jim Leighton, leaving Paul Goddard with the simplest of headers into the empty net. Magic. An absolutely fantastic read - thanks for the memories Arthur! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Out of interest Uttox (or anyone else who was around for both) who do you think would have won a triple crown tournament... Cox's championship winning team Smiths promotion team Billy's play off team I am going for Sir Arthur's team, just because Bobby, Gee and Gregory were all unplayable. I'd agree with that as well. I'd discount Billy's side straight away on the basis that the other two, at times, were truly great top flight sides. Billy's side never was. Seriously the likes of Bobby, Gregory, Sturridge, Baiano or even Wanchope going up against Clod and Big Dave - no contest, they'd have been mauled. Pearo in the middle trying to cope with Eranio? Stevie Howard trying to get the better of Mark Wright and Peter Shilton? Then comes down to Arthur's side against TBE's. I'd say Arthur's would have the edge. Bobby, Gregory, Saunders, Goddard, lethal combinations. Plus we were incredibly strong all over the pitch, which is why we finished fifth. The side that finished 8th under TBE had frailties. Even though we had a great campaign it was blighted by some horrific performances (Leeds and Leicester at Pride Park - Leeds at ER after we'd gone 3-0 up). I think if you went player for player, Arthur's side would win out, and I think as a team, Arthur's side would win out. TBE's side played the more attractive football, but Arthur's side were able to better mix attractive football and effective football. I think TBE's side suffered at times because we tried to play too prettily. Either way, for me, those are the two greatest eras while I've followed the club. Personally, I know we had less success with them, but I had far more enjoyment out of the Kitson/Johnson/Gabbiadini era than I did Billy's side, with the odd exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 It annoys me that I missed all of this. People moan and complain about watching Derby, but think of the younger fans. I've done my own research on our past to know who people are talking about in discussions etc, but I can never really join in the praise when people are talking about the players of old as they mean nothing to me. I never saw them. The earliest game I went to that I can remember featured Jeff Kenna and Ian Taylor etc, I wasn't interested in football before then. I have never had that kind of enjoyment from Derby, the play-offs win I enjoyed but didn't enjoy watching the team all season. The best i've had was the football at the start of this season. Here's hoping that Derby provide something for me to remember as fondly as you all do this, as up to now, i've got nothing! (God knows why I love Derby so much by this logic, must be something in the water ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the464444 Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 It annoys me that I missed all of this. People moan and complain about watching Derby, but think of the younger fans. I've done my own research on our past to know who people are talking about in discussions etc, but I can never really join in the praise when people are talking about the players of old as they mean nothing to me. I never saw them. The earliest game I went to that I can remember featured Jeff Kenna and Ian Taylor etc, I wasn't interested in football before then. I have never had that kind of enjoyment from Derby, the play-offs win I enjoyed but didn't enjoy watching the team all season. The best i've had was the football at the start of this season. Here's hoping that Derby provide something for me to remember as fondly as you all do this, as up to now, i've got nothing! (God knows why I love Derby so much by this logic, must be something in the water ) Very much agreed, but I think not having seen Derby successful is something of a blessing in disguise. Most Derby fans I know who were about when we actually won things seem to get much more cut up and distressed about how dismal we are than I do, which isn't to say that they're more committed to the club that me, just that I'm more resigned to failure than they are and they still have the memories of the so it doesn't hurt me as much. I think this is mostly likely due to the fact that, in the 11 years i've had a season ticket and been conscious of the nature of football, we've never been anything other than Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the464444 Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 It annoys me that I missed all of this. People moan and complain about watching Derby, but think of the younger fans. I've done my own research on our past to know who people are talking about in discussions etc, but I can never really join in the praise when people are talking about the players of old as they mean nothing to me. I never saw them. The earliest game I went to that I can remember featured Jeff Kenna and Ian Taylor etc, I wasn't interested in football before then. I have never had that kind of enjoyment from Derby, the play-offs win I enjoyed but didn't enjoy watching the team all season. The best i've had was the football at the start of this season. Here's hoping that Derby provide something for me to remember as fondly as you all do this, as up to now, i've got nothing! (God knows why I love Derby so much by this logic, must be something in the water ) Very much agreed, but I think not having seen Derby successful is something of a blessing in disguise. Most Derby fans I know who were about when we actually were half decent seem to get much more cut up and distressed about how dismal we are than I do, which isn't to say that they're more committed to the club that me, just that I'm more resigned to failure than they are and they still have the memories of success, so exposure to the shower of shoite that we often are hurts them more than it does me. I think this is mostly likely due to the fact that, in the 11 or so years i've had a season ticket and been conscious of the nature of football, we've very rarely been anything other than feckin' useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the464444 Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 It annoys me that I missed all of this. People moan and complain about watching Derby, but think of the younger fans. I've done my own research on our past to know who people are talking about in discussions etc, but I can never really join in the praise when people are talking about the players of old as they mean nothing to me. I never saw them. The earliest game I went to that I can remember featured Jeff Kenna and Ian Taylor etc, I wasn't interested in football before then. I have never had that kind of enjoyment from Derby, the play-offs win I enjoyed but didn't enjoy watching the team all season. The best i've had was the football at the start of this season. Here's hoping that Derby provide something for me to remember as fondly as you all do this, as up to now, i've got nothing! (God knows why I love Derby so much by this logic, must be something in the water ) Also, are you daring to slag off Ian Taylor? I'll have you know, when I was 12 Michael Johnson gave me a matchday football and then immediately took it off me saying "I was only joking" prompting Ian "Gandhi" Taylor to heroically proclaim "you miserable b*stard, you need to give it to him". Admittedly I never got the football in the end, but the sentiment stuck with me 'til this point, and I will never stand to see the great man's name muddied in my presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Also, are you daring to slag off Ian Taylor? I'll have you know, when I was 12 Michael Johnson gave me a matchday football and then immediately took it off me saying "I was only joking" prompting Ian "Gandhi" Taylor to heroically proclaim "you miserable b*stard, you need to give it to him". Admittedly I never got the football in the end, but the sentiment stuck with me 'til this point, and I will never stand to see the great man's name muddied in my presence. No no, just listing who was playing that day! I like Ian Taylor, if it makes you believe me, I follow him on twitter. Which is some kind of respect for me to listen to what kind of sandwches he likes I suppose. Agreed about the blessing in disguise that seeing nothing but rubbish is though, I look at Derby as anyone would outside of our fans; a second tier club with larger than normal support. Nothing more, at the moment. Almost every club has a few years of successful history, and every fan who sees those times expects their side to be competing at the top end of the leagues every year. I don't understand fans who see Doncaster and say "We should be doing better than Doncaster! **** club!" And then go mad if we lose. People often look at the history instead of looking at what we really are now. As it is, we're no better than Doncaster. We have the facilities to be, but we're not the moment. Anyway, i'm going off-topic, so rant over :oops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 It annoys me that I missed all of this. People moan and complain about watching Derby, but think of the younger fans. I've done my own research on our past to know who people are talking about in discussions etc, but I can never really join in the praise when people are talking about the players of old as they mean nothing to me. I never saw them. The earliest game I went to that I can remember featured Jeff Kenna and Ian Taylor etc, I wasn't interested in football before then. I have never had that kind of enjoyment from Derby, the play-offs win I enjoyed but didn't enjoy watching the team all season. The best i've had was the football at the start of this season. Here's hoping that Derby provide something for me to remember as fondly as you all do this, as up to now, i've got nothing! (God knows why I love Derby so much by this logic, must be something in the water ) Have you seen video clips of the old games? I'm in my twenties and my earliest memories of DCFC was the year we lost the playoff final to Leicester. I only went to The BBG a few times, but I don't honestly remember the games I watched. On the TBE era it was only really good in The PL for 3 seasons. 97-98, 98-99 and 99-00.. After that we went to pot and so did the football and the signings. Having a look back on wikipedia I find it incredible some of the deals that went on. Selling Carsley, Wanchope, Baiano, Stimac, Powell and Eranio retiring all within 2 years literally killed us off. Talk about dismantling a near masterpiece. But the fees in which they were sold were atrocious. Anyway 2 games in the same year against Sheff Wed are on youtube and the football that was played will not be matched for a very very long time. The 2 games I'm refering to are the 3-0 home victory where we struck the woodwork 4 times and a 5-2 away victory.. The football was just sublime. Since 2000 the football DCFC have had to endure has been horrific. I had brief joy at watching George Burleys team tear it up against the likes of Crewe, Rotherham and Gillingham but it was no Arsenal, Liverpool and Man Utd like TBEs team. Under Billy Davies our football was dire, a 5-1 victory over Colchester was the only game in the whole season that we dominated. Now we're a million miles away from those good days.. Our team under TBE is better than (for e.g.) Aston Villas, S'Lands and Newcastles team now.. And how much are D.Bent, Downing, A. young, A.Caroll, Gyan, Henderson, Guttierez worth again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Have you seen video clips of the old games? I'm in my twenties and my earliest memories of DCFC was the year we lost the playoff final to Leicester. I only went to The BBG a few times, but I don't honestly remember the games I watched. On the TBE era it was only really good in The PL for 3 seasons. 97-98, 98-99 and 99-00.. After that we went to pot and so did the football and the signings. Having a look back on wikipedia I find it incredible some of the deals that went on. Selling Carsley, Wanchope, Baiano, Stimac, Powell and Eranio retiring all within 2 years literally killed us off. Talk about dismantling a near masterpiece. But the fees in which they were sold were atrocious. Anyway 2 games in the same year against Sheff Wed are on youtube and the football that was played will not be matched for a very very long time. The 2 games I'm refering to are the 3-0 home victory where we struck the woodwork 4 times and a 5-2 away victory.. The football was just sublime. Since 2000 the football DCFC have had to endure has been horrific. I had brief joy at watching George Burleys team tear it up against the likes of Crewe, Rotherham and Gillingham but it was no Arsenal, Liverpool and Man Utd like TBEs team. Under Billy Davies our football was dire, a 5-1 victory over Colchester was the only game in the whole season that we dominated. Now we're a million miles away from those good days.. Our team under TBE is better than (for e.g.) Aston Villas, S'Lands and Newcastles team now.. And how much are D.Bent, Downing, A. young, A.Caroll, Gyan, Henderson, Guttierez worth again? I have watched alot of games, not recently, but when I first joined the old DET forum to understand fully the players that people used to talk about. I was interested to find out how good the players/football was when people describe it. When I watch the Clough era I get a twinge of nostalgia, as obviously Clough is the biggest thing about our history (or atleast he was to me anyway), but I just don't get excited by seeing any of the old recordings. Someone posted a link of that game where we beat Rotheram 2-1. While i'm pleased that we beat them, I don't get any pleasure out of seeing the goals. I never saw it, and its long since past, so i'm detached from any enjoyment of that era. I'm pleased to know we did well but I just don't get any feeling from it, as I didn't see it or wasn't aware of it when it happened. That's why many of our fans are so lucky to have seen it, and i'd be worried about our fanbase for the future, as i've not taken any real enjoyment from watching Derby as many people seem to from past glories. Don't get me wrong, i'll always be at PP in some capacity on match day, but the younger fanbase must wonder why they bother going! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 The Rotherham game was an amaing, amazing night and as I have said before watching the penalty still brings tears to my eyes even now...I can remember the complete disbelief when we got the penalty (it was NEVER a penalty by the way) and waiting for Christie to step up...it was horrible... I still have the flag I bought outside the grond that night, with the words "PROMOTION" on it, it takes pride of place in a frame in the entrance to our home....I also still have my "We'll be back in 82" scarf.. ha ha About the looking back and feeling nothing, I get the same feelings for pretty much anything that has happened since we moved to Pride Park, even the glory glory days of Smith's era, it just doesn't mean as much to me as those great BBG days...i suppose the era you are brought up in is always going to be the most important to you. As for the young fans of today, I really do feel sorry for them, the dross they are served up on a regular basis is heartbreaking, it has to get better....it just has to, there is nothing as exciting as going for promotion from this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wittgenstein Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 The Rotherham game was an amaing, amazing night and as I have said before watching the penalty still brings tears to my eyes even now...I can remember the complete disbelief when we got the penalty (it was NEVER a penalty by the way) and waiting for Christie to step up...it was horrible... I still have the flag I bought outside the grond that night, with the words "PROMOTION" on it, it takes pride of place in a frame in the entrance to our home....I also still have my "We'll be back in 82" scarf.. ha ha About the looking back and feeling nothing, I get the same feelings for pretty much anything that has happened since we moved to Pride Park, even the glory glory days of Smith's era, it just doesn't mean as much to me as those great BBG days...i suppose the era you are brought up in is always going to be the most important to you. As for the young fans of today, I really do feel sorry for them, the dross they are served up on a regular basis is heartbreaking, it has to get better....it just has to, there is nothing as exciting as going for promotion from this league. I think its an age thing really mate. Everything is so much more exciting when you are young and when things are for the first time. We needn't feel sorry for the young fans because their time will come. My experience of watching Derby tells me that it goes in cycles and we will rise again. Maybe not to the levels of the early 70's, but the success levels Cox and Smith achieved will be repeated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saunders89 Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 And how many did he go in for that we didnt get such as Ray Houghton etc -went to Liverpool Weren't Lee Dixon and David Seaman in talks with Arthur too? along with quite a few others (remember reading Neil Hallams column in the trader about it), i think we very nearly got them as well, The side that finished 5th were great, a mixture of talent and doggedness, underrated players like Trevor Hebbard, Paul Blades and George Williams (i can't believe the stick he used to get from Dennis the paper seller (if anyone remembers him?)), the problem with todays game now though is if we were to uncover another Deano the "big" clubs would swoop for him and we'd be lucky to get more than a season out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Paul Blades - Can't remember him getting too many goals, but do remember an absolute screamer against Coventry. Think we drew 1-1. It was a FK touched to him and he just leathered it straight into the top corner. Oggy never stood a chance. Bet-buster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saunders89 Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 Paul Blades - Can't remember him getting too many goals, but do remember an absolute screamer against Coventry. Think we drew 1-1. It was a FK touched to him and he just leathered it straight into the top corner. Oggy never stood a chance. Bet-buster! Yeah, i remember that one too, i was in the Normo end and got a great view of it, he suffered from asthma big time too didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliche_King Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 This was undoubtedly my favourite era in football, not just because of the Shilton-Wright-Hebberd/Williams-Saunders spine but because there are so many players that I realise have just escaped my memory. I wrote the below blog post to jig my memory of the players I'd forgotten about. Gary Micklewhite is in there, not because I forgot about him, but because I had to go with a Derby player as the first one. The research was fun - there are probably another 20 players I could add to this list, if I had the time. http://www.robbiesavageisaprat.co.uk/11-footballers-from-1989-youve-probably-forgotten-about The site's in it's early days but will be doing a few more like this so keep a look out. Any ideas let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saunders89 Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 This was undoubtedly my favourite era in football, not just because of the Shilton-Wright-Hebberd/Williams-Saunders spine but because there are so many players that I realise have just escaped my memory. I wrote the below blog post to jig my memory of the players I'd forgotten about. Gary Micklewhite is in there, not because I forgot about him, but because I had to go with a Derby player as the first one. The research was fun - there are probably another 20 players I could add to this list, if I had the time. http://www.robbiesavageisaprat.co.uk/11-footballers-from-1989-youve-probably-forgotten-about The site's in it's early days but will be doing a few more like this so keep a look out. Any ideas let me know. That picture of Culverhouse looks very much like Paul Blades, you sure it isn't him? I remember Maiorana, he was the "new Best" before Giggs was, i remember seeing him playing against us in one of his rare United appearances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliche_King Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Well spotted there. Thanks I was at that Maiorana game at Old Trafford too - Saunders turning Bruce on the halfway line. Sad day though, given what was happening at Hillsborough at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams71 Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Cox's team would rip Billy and TBE's teams to pieces. Those were the best years of my Derby following years. Gregorys volley against Chelsea,if a Brazilian had scored it they'd still be showing it on tv. Saunders volley at Highbury wasn't bad either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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