9-11, 23 years ago and still there's thoughts of complicity by the USA/Bush

[Normanton Lad]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

How would it benefit a conspiracy remaining secret if a false report of the building's collapse was given to news outlets before it was actually "blown up"? 😂

A conspiracy is a secret plan, but it is not being suggested that the BBC announcement was part of the plan.  It is strange that the first ever collapse of a steel high rise building caused by fire alone should be known in advance. The official cause of the collapse of WTC7 was burning office furniture and the sprinkler system not working.

[Crewton]

4 minutes ago, Normanton Lad said:

A conspiracy is a secret plan, but it is not being suggested that the BBC announcement was part of the plan.  It is strange that the first ever collapse of a steel high rise building caused by fire alone should be known in advance. The official cause of the collapse of WTC7 was burning office furniture and the sprinkler system not working.

 

[Stive Pesley]

12 minutes ago, Normanton Lad said:

It is strange that the first ever collapse of a steel high rise building caused by fire alone should be known in advance.

But it's not though is it? CNN had reported that the building was on fire and in danger of  collapse over an hour before the erroneous BBC report was made. Given the general chaos on the news wires that day it's a far simpler explanation that it was just a mistake made in a fast-moving situation

[Normanton Lad]

16 minutes ago, Crewton said:

 

I don't know why you are puzzled. The BBC clip suggests that someone "cracked out of turn."

House of Games (10/11) Movie CLIP - It Was Fate I Found You (1987) HD - YouTube

The acting might seem a bit odd in this clip, but I think it is a terrific film.

[Normanton Lad]

14 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

But it's not though is it? CNN had reported that the building was on fire and in danger of  collapse over an hour before the erroneous BBC report was made. Given the general chaos on the news wires that day it's a far simpler explanation that it was just a mistake made in a fast-moving situation

To say that something was a mistake or a coincidence is usually the "simplest explanation", but the question is what is the "true" explanation. I don't know what really happened, but the official explanations don't sound "true" to me.

[Stive Pesley]

26 minutes ago, Normanton Lad said:

To say that something was a mistake or a coincidence is usually the "simplest explanation", but the question is what is the "true" explanation. I don't know what really happened, but the official explanations don't sound "true" to me.

Fair enough - but why there would be a conspiracy to carry out a controlled demolition on WTC7 and then pretend it was just natural collapse. I haven't heard an answer to that one that sounds "true"

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

My query about the latest revelation that the OP highlighted is this : whilst I can quite believe that the perpetrators received intelligence help, why would the Saudi Government want to carry out the attack and, if say, their motive could have been to bait the USA into going after Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden (their sworn enemies), why would they use Saudi nationals to carry out the attack? It's a bit "bleedin' obvious", isn't it? I'd have thought that the Saudis would have much rather put Iran in the frame by using some gullible dissidents?

Only those that know...know

The Saudis have form

On 2 October 2018, Jamal Khashoggi, a US-based journalist and critic of Saudi Arabia's government, walked into the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, where he was murdered.

In the months that followed, conflicting narratives emerged over how he died, what happened to his remains, and who was responsible.

Saudi officials said the journalist was killed in a "rogue operation" by a team of agents sent to persuade him to return to the kingdom, while Turkish officials said the agents acted on orders from the highest levels of the Saudi government.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45812399

15 of the 19 9-11 terrorists were Saudi, Why did Bush go after Iraq...there was never any WMD, The USA pulled most of their forces out of Afghanistan to invade Iraq, Afghanistan is now a Pariah of a state/Country.

USA/Saudi Arabia may not have gone hand in hand, But imo their security which is known to have been the enemy of the USA Government at times either helped with very lax security or closed their eyes to 1000s of murders 

[Crewton]

2 hours ago, Ram-Alf said:

Only those that know...know

The Saudis have form

On 2 October 2018, Jamal Khashoggi, a US-based journalist and critic of Saudi Arabia's government, walked into the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, where he was murdered.

In the months that followed, conflicting narratives emerged over how he died, what happened to his remains, and who was responsible.

Saudi officials said the journalist was killed in a "rogue operation" by a team of agents sent to persuade him to return to the kingdom, while Turkish officials said the agents acted on orders from the highest levels of the Saudi government.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45812399

15 of the 19 9-11 terrorists were Saudi, Why did Bush go after Iraq...there was never any WMD, The USA pulled most of their forces out of Afghanistan to invade Iraq, Afghanistan is now a Pariah of a state/Country.

USA/Saudi Arabia may not have gone hand in hand, But imo their security which is known to have been the enemy of the USA Government at times either helped with very lax security or closed their eyes to 1000s of murders 

That still doesn't explain main point - why would the Saudi Government or intelligence services help a group of easily identifiable Saudi nationals to attack its ally?

[Ram-Alf]

42 minutes ago, Crewton said:

That still doesn't explain main point - why would the Saudi Government or intelligence services help a group of easily identifiable Saudi nationals to attack its ally?

The Why...until all unredacted files are released we can only guess/assume what we read and watch 🤷‍♂️ TURNING POINT...9/11 and the War on Terror...on Netflix, The Saudis with the USAs nod and a wink chucked Bin Laden out of Saudi Arabia, Maybe just maybe the Saudis didn't want Saudi Arabia to look like Afghanistan once the USA bailed out 🤷‍♂️hence them kicking Bin Laden out

Also in the link below...Saudi officials helped X amount of the terrorists to get accommodation in San Diego  

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/05/september-11-attacks-saudi-arabia-lawsuit/678430/

 

[Crewton]

37 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

The Why...until all unredacted files are released we can only guess/assume what we read and watch 🤷‍♂️ TURNING POINT...9/11 and the War on Terror...on Netflix, The Saudis with the USAs nod and a wink chucked Bin Laden out of Saudi Arabia, Maybe just maybe the Saudis didn't want Saudi Arabia to look like Afghanistan once the USA bailed out 🤷‍♂️hence them kicking Bin Laden out

Also in the link below...Saudi officials helped X amount of the terrorists to get accommodation in San Diego  

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/05/september-11-attacks-saudi-arabia-lawsuit/678430/

 

I can't read the article Alf, as I don't subscribe to the Atlantic.

[Ram-Alf]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

I can't read the article Alf, as I don't subscribe to the Atlantic.

Sit down with a good drink 😉

I've copied and pasted it to you, It's a good read...and you'll make your own mind up, As a footnote at the bottom...I put the authors 

[ariotofmyown]

On 11/09/2024 at 19:14, Normanton Lad said:

Those who say too many people would have to have been in on the conspiracy forget about things like the enigma machine being known about by hundreds, maybe thousands, and yet the public didn't find out for 30 years.

Maybe because they signed the official secrets act and could be prosecuted if they talked about it to anyone. And a conspiracy is a "secret plan to carry out unlawful actions", not just "a secret plan", especially not one to help win a war their country was involved in?

Plus, "building a code breaking machine to help us defeat the Nazis" is somewhat less morally questionable than "killing 1000s of our own civillians and pretending it was terrorists to provide a false flag". You might possibly get the odd whistleblower in the latter.

Thank god we have better than average people like you to reveal the truth.

[Archied]

The truth is that with most conspiracy theories of this kind is you never get to know for sure one way or the other what the truth or partial truth is and they come about because we all know for sure that governments, secret services and many powerful people at the top end are very often slippery, ruthless and lacking in morals , throw in a portion of people in positions of power who are just plain stupid and incompetent to the point that it’s hard to believe anyone who’s reached those hieghts could possibly be so stupid and you have a heady mix ,

I tend to read about and take notice of these things but never actually go full on tonto in believing one way or the other and think that’s where people go wrong , once you do that you become deaf and blind to anything that contradicts how you see it

[ariotofmyown]

4 minutes ago, Archied said:

The truth is that with most conspiracy theories of this kind is you never get to know for sure one way or the other what the truth or partial truth is and they come about because we all know for sure that governments, secret services and many powerful people at the top end are very often slippery, ruthless and lacking in morals , throw in a portion of people in positions of power who are just plain stupid and incompetent to the point that it’s hard to believe anyone who’s reached those hieghts could possibly be so stupid and you have a heady mix ,

I tend to read about and take notice of these things but never actually go full on tonto in believing one way or the other and think that’s where people go wrong , once you do that you become deaf and blind to anything that contradicts how you see it

Don't you apply some rationale to what you choose to read about though. As I mentioned before, JFK assassination at least seems plausible, even if any evidence is rather slim.

9/11 conspiracy theories are a whole another level and are hugely extrapolated from a couple of bits of nothing.

I would hope you ignore totally the flat earth garbage.

Do you keep an open mine on the Illuminati, or prefer to believe the guy who created that idea for a joke in the 70s?

If there is a conspiracy, it's probably certain people promoting multiple conspiraces to either drive clickbait revenue or deliberately mis-inform and create chaos.

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

Don't you apply some rationale to what you choose to read about though. As I mentioned before, JFK assassination at least seems plausible, even if any evidence is rather slim.

This.

Donald Rumsfeld said when interviewed concerning WMD "I never said there were Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq" when confronted by an interview he gave saying he said there was "Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq", You could see the utter distain for the journalist from Rumsfeld...this is what conspiracy theorists grab hold of...it's the lies of powerful politicians that (we) conspiracy theorists(I'm a rational one ☺️) feed off.

Fact, Fiction, Rumour, Inuendo or lies you have to fight your way through the malaise of politics, Wealth and power and hope you come to a rational conclusion 👍

[Archied]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Don't you apply some rationale to what you choose to read about though. As I mentioned before, JFK assassination at least seems plausible, even if any evidence is rather slim.

9/11 conspiracy theories are a whole another level and are hugely extrapolated from a couple of bits of nothing.

I would hope you ignore totally the flat earth garbage.

Do you keep an open mine on the Illuminati, or prefer to believe the guy who created that idea for a joke in the 70s?

If there is a conspiracy, it's probably certain people promoting multiple conspiraces to either drive clickbait revenue or deliberately mis-inform and create chaos.

I believe I apply rational ( others might not think so) , though I do read all sorts as you can usually take something from everything, even if it’s just an opinion on the people who put stuff out , I think the important bit you missed is where I say partial when it comes to finding any value or stuff worth questioning, where i usually fall is perhaps events not being a set up conspiracy but people / governments, corporations , established money and power bases using them for they’re best advantage , for me covid is a great example ,great transfer of wealth , people scared into handing power to the state and all sorts of dodgy dealings though I don’t buy the done on purpose scenario,

flat earth is just out there but funny , a bit like god created the world then rested on the seventh day😂,

as for illuminati that’s really got to be stripped down to whether you see things like families and groups that build up , hold on to and pass down vast wealth and power over the generations, enough to really wield or buy silent power over governments and people , actually that stuff is very much worth tracing and I do believe that is present and has been for many years, Though glamourising it kind of makes it something that it’s not,

the words conspiracy theory has gently been given a nut job tag to shut people up , 

do I believe that established money and power bases conspire to keep and improve theyre position? Hell yes , no big shrouded mystical thing , just the sad fact that as a species we are infected with a fair portion of humans who are driven by greed for money and power and very often have the lack of morals to stop at nothing 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Edited Friday at 09:57 by Archied

[Comrade 86]

20 hours ago, Ram-Alf said:

Sit down with a good drink 😉

I've copied and pasted it to you, It's a good read...and you'll make your own mind up, As a footnote at the bottom...I put the authors 

Would be interested to read it too if you don't mind sending it to me too Alf? It's not a publication usually prone to flights of fancy and they tend to do their homework.

[Ram-Alf]

36 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Would be interested to read it too if you don't mind sending it to me too Alf? It's not a publication usually prone to flights of fancy and they tend to do their homework.

Sent 👍

[Comrade 86]

8 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

Sent 👍

Received with thanks Alf

[Archied]

4 hours ago, Ram-Alf said:

Sent 👍

Sorry to be a pain Alf , any chance you could send it to me too