Make up of the squad:

[duncanjwitham]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

We already have Rooney, Thompson and Sibley who  I would put in that group. Put Evans, Bardell, Robinson, Weston and a Brown in for Vickers, Ward, Fornah, Washington and John-Jules and you have your 8. There's obviously a drop off in quality at this point in time, but it's not as if 4 out of the 5 I listed have had much game time in the league anyway.

And you've got to bear in mind, we could have easily still had the likes of Buchanan, Ebsosele, Ebiowei, Plange, Kellyman etc.  The academy setup we have is more than capable of producing a bunch of League One squad-depth players, given time to recover.

[On the Ram Page]

13 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Not sure I subscribe to that squad profile. This is coming from a club in Charlton who find themselves in mid table, so to be honest, I’m not sure why we should be following their model.

For what it’s worth, this is how I’d roughly assess our squad:

Top class players who are clearly capable of stepping up to the Championship: Cashin, Mendez-Laing, Hourihane, Wilson

Good League One players: Nelson, Forsyth, Bird, Nyambe, Collins, Barkhuizen, Wildsmith, Smith, Sibley, Vickers, Embleton, Elder

Poor League One players: Waghorn, Fornah, Washington, Bradley, Thompson, John-Jules

Players not capable (or not ready) at League One level: Rooney, Ward

Note: This is based on our squad from the first half of the season, so I have included Embleton and John-Jules, but not Oduroh.

As you might expect, most of our players fall within the “good” category - which is why we’ve found ourselves in and around the top six. And that’s not a problem - you need enough of those players to create a strong squad depth. 

But I think it’s those players in the top category that are the difference makers in getting top two. They’re naturally hard to come by of course, since they really shouldn’t be playing at this level, so you would never expect too many players in that list. But I do think a couple of additions of that quality would propel the entire team to one that is too good for this league - and that is the level you need to show to achieve automatic promotion.

The trouble for me is, finding top quality players on a budget is hard. And looking at those players in the bottom two lists - there are a lot signed under the current regime. I had a lot of hope for the new recruitment team, but so far they’ve performed very poorly. That needs to change this window.

Yer having a laugh aren't you?

[duncanjwitham]

23 hours ago, Blondest Goat said:

A lot of posters on here seem to expect us to have a squad filled with excellent League One players.  The likes of Bradley, Ward and Elder whose careers indicate they are clearly decent L1 standard aren't good enough for them.

I think it's reasonable to ask why players who have shown they are capable of playing at this level (or even higher), don't look capable of it here and now.  Obviously for someone like Bradley it's probably just his legs have gone (and they've probably gone more than we were expecting them to, if you know what I mean).  But for the others you have to wonder about how they are being used, and whether they were signed for the right reasons.  Joe Ward is probably a decent League One winger (as he showed at Peterborough), but he looks a dodgy-as-hell League One fullback.  Callum Elder is probably a reasonable Championship fullback, but he's not a flying wingback who you can just plug into your "get it wide quickly and cross it" philosophy.

And its the same with people like Max Bird.  He's looked more than comfortable here in a possession-heavy Championship team, but much less effective in a "get it forward quickly" League One team.  You can't just go around putting ability-labels on players without considering how they are being used.  Get players doing what they're good at, they'll look better than they are.  Get them doing stuff they're bad at, they'll look worse than they are.

[May Contain Nuts]

4 hours ago, CodnorRam said:

Its tough, as the likes of bird and co perform better in championship because of the style of football. I think thats why we havent seen a deal of sibley in this league as its too physical. I think the current team we have is championship standard i think its more the style of football the league predominantly plays. Another example of this clash of style of plays is when we was in championship we always lost against relegation fodder but beat or played well against teams that played nice football. Think of the teams like Sheff wednesday that have been swallowed up in this league who had champ standard players. Then look at the garbage that has been promoted out of this league that play like league 1 teams but cant adapt in championship? 

Interesting post anyway mate

It's a slow day at work (tbh it's been a slow year so far) so.... OK, Done!

There have been 40 different teams promoted from League One in the past 20 seasons. 26 of these teams currently find themselves playing at Championship level or above (8x Prem, 18x Champ) with 14 at League One Level or below (8x L1, 3x L2, 3x National League)

CH or > - Bournemouth, Brentford, Brighton & Hove Albion, Crystal Palace, Luton Town, Nottingham Forest, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Sheffield United, Blackburn Rovers, Bristol City, Coventry City, Huddersfield Town, Hull City, Ipswich Town, Leeds United, Leicester City, Millwall, Norwich City, Plymouth Argyle, Preston North End, Rotherham United, Sheffield Wednesday, Southampton, Sunderland, Swansea City, West Bromwich Albion

L1 or < - Barnsley, Blackpool, Bolton Wanderers, Burton Albion, Charlton Athletic, Peterborough United, Wigan Athletic, Wycombe Wanderers, Colchester, Doncaster Rovers, Milton Keynes Dons, Scunthorpe United, Southend, Yeovil Town.

Teams who've been promoted but relegated after their 1st season - Charlton, Doncaster, MK Dons, Peterborough (x2), Rotherham (x2) Scunthorpe, Southend, Wigan (x2), Wycombe, Yeovil.  

Teams who've been promoted but relegated after their 2nd season - Barnsley, Burton, Colchester, Luton, Peterborough, Scunthorpe 

Just from that limited info I wouldn't say that most of the teams coming back down within/after 2 seasons struggled in the Championship because of their style of play resembles that of the stereotypical League One team?

 

 

 

Edited January 15 by May Contain Nuts

[Millenniumram]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

We already have Rooney, Thompson and Sibley who  I would put in that group. Put Evans, Bardell, Robinson, Weston and a Brown in for Vickers, Ward, Fornah, Washington and John-Jules and you have your 8. There's obviously a drop off in quality at this point in time, but it's not as if 4 out of the 5 I listed have had much game time in the league anyway.

That would be a huge drop off in quality and leave us with very little reliable squad depth. And we’ve seen last season how costly that can be. I just don’t think it’s a sensible strategy given the density of games at this level. You’d need to have academy as good as ours was before administration ripped it apart in order to make it work.

[Millenniumram]

1 hour ago, On the Ram Page said:

Yer having a laugh aren't you?

I wish, but our recruitment last summer was only funny to a Forest fan

[Ghost of Clough]

4 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

That would be a huge drop off in quality and leave us with very little reliable squad depth. And we’ve seen last season how costly that can be. I just don’t think it’s a sensible strategy given the density of games at this level. You’d need to have academy as good as ours was before administration ripped it apart in order to make it work.

Vickers > Evans - Vickers has featured for just 130 minutes in the league. We lost the first game and won the 2nd 3-1. I don't think using Evans instead would have cost us anything
Ward > Bardell - At RB Bardell would be a more reliable defender. Overall a big drop off in quality and Bardell is an injury risk, but we would still have Wilson as RB/RWB cover anyway
Fornah > DRobinson - 763 mins in the league. I personally consider Robinson to be low end L1 level anyway, and I would have included him in my first team squad rather than sign Fornah in the first place.
Washington > Weston - 497 mins may be pushing it a bit for where Weston is at
John-Jules > Brown - only 201 mins in the league... The amount of football I would expect from Brown at this level anyway

If we were in this league for another season, I would definitely be including more academy players in my first team squad. Cox and Radcliffe joining the 'academy' options.

[DavesaRam]

46 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I think it's reasonable to ask why players who have shown they are capable of playing at this level (or even higher), don't look capable of it here and now.  Obviously for someone like Bradley it's probably just his legs have gone (and they've probably gone more than we were expecting them to, if you know what I mean).  But for the others you have to wonder about how they are being used, and whether they were signed for the right reasons.  Joe Ward is probably a decent League One winger (as he showed at Peterborough), but he looks a dodgy-as-hell League One fullback.  Callum Elder is probably a reasonable Championship fullback, but he's not a flying wingback who you can just plug into your "get it wide quickly and cross it" philosophy.

And its the same with people like Max Bird.  He's looked more than comfortable here in a possession-heavy Championship team, but much less effective in a "get it forward quickly" League One team.  You can't just go around putting ability-labels on players without considering how they are being used.  Get players doing what they're good at, they'll look better than they are.  Get them doing stuff they're bad at, they'll look worse than they are.

Hit the nail right on the head there, young Dunc! 👏

[BatRam]

1 hour ago, May Contain Nuts said:

It's a slow day at work (tbh it's been a slow year so far) so.... OK, Done!

There have been 40 different teams promoted from League One in the past 20 seasons. 26 of these teams currently find themselves playing at Championship level or above (8x Prem, 18x Champ) with 14 at League One Level or below (8x L1, 3x L2, 3x National League)

CH or > - Bournemouth, Brentford, Brighton & Hove Albion, Crystal Palace, Luton Town, Nottingham Forest, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Sheffield United, Blackburn Rovers, Bristol City, Coventry City, Huddersfield Town, Hull City, Ipswich Town, Leeds United, Leicester City, Millwall, Norwich City, Plymouth Argyle, Preston North End, Rotherham United, Sheffield Wednesday, Southampton, Sunderland, Swansea City, West Bromwich Albion

L1 or < - Barnsley, Blackpool, Bolton Wanderers, Burton Albion, Charlton Athletic, Peterborough United, Wigan Athletic, Wycombe Wanderers, Colchester, Doncaster Rovers, Milton Keynes Dons, Scunthorpe United, Southend, Yeovil Town.

Teams who've been promoted but relegated after their 1st season - Charlton, Doncaster, MK Dons, Peterborough (x2), Rotherham (x2) Scunthorpe, Southend, Wigan (x2), Wycombe, Yeovil.  

Teams who've been promoted but relegated after their 2nd season - Barnsley, Burton, Colchester, Luton, Peterborough, Scunthorpe 

Just from that limited info I wouldn't say that most of the teams coming back down within/after 2 seasons struggled in the Championship because of their style of play resembles that of the stereotypical League One team?

 

 

 

Sorry matey im way too autistic to take in this information 🤣 is this for or against my post 🤣

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, May Contain Nuts said:

It's a slow day at work (tbh it's been a slow year so far) so.... OK, Done!

There have been 40 different teams promoted from League One in the past 20 seasons. 26 of these teams currently find themselves playing at Championship level or above (8x Prem, 18x Champ) with 14 at League One Level or below (8x L1, 3x L2, 3x National League)

CH or > - Bournemouth, Brentford, Brighton & Hove Albion, Crystal Palace, Luton Town, Nottingham Forest, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Sheffield United, Blackburn Rovers, Bristol City, Coventry City, Huddersfield Town, Hull City, Ipswich Town, Leeds United, Leicester City, Millwall, Norwich City, Plymouth Argyle, Preston North End, Rotherham United, Sheffield Wednesday, Southampton, Sunderland, Swansea City, West Bromwich Albion

L1 or < - Barnsley, Blackpool, Bolton Wanderers, Burton Albion, Charlton Athletic, Peterborough United, Wigan Athletic, Wycombe Wanderers, Colchester, Doncaster Rovers, Milton Keynes Dons, Scunthorpe United, Southend, Yeovil Town.

Teams who've been promoted but relegated after their 1st season - Charlton, Doncaster, MK Dons, Peterborough (x2), Rotherham (x2) Scunthorpe, Southend, Wigan (x2), Wycombe, Yeovil.  

Teams who've been promoted but relegated after their 2nd season - Barnsley, Burton, Colchester, Luton, Peterborough, Scunthorpe 

Just from that limited info I wouldn't say that most of the teams coming back down within/after 2 seasons struggled in the Championship because of their style of play resembles that of the stereotypical League One team?

 

 

 

Your 03/04 has the teams promoted to the Premier League. It should be Plymouth, QPR, Brighton - Brighton relegated after 2 seasons

[May Contain Nuts]

30 minutes ago, CodnorRam said:

Sorry matey im way too autistic to take in this information 🤣 is this for or against my post 🤣

Neither for or against, I just thought the bit of your post I bolded was worthy of investigation so thought I'd look into it.

19 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Your 03/04 has the teams promoted to the Premier League. It should be Plymouth, QPR, Brighton - Brighton relegated after 2 seasons

Ah yeah, I knew there would be some faults somewhere. The wiki pages for a couple of seasons just cover 'the football league' rather than being division specific and I've copied he wrong section.  There's another slight error where I've forgotten to highlight a cell so it isn't represented in the final summation. I wasn't actually going to go that far back initially.

The wider point still applies though, a higher proportion of teams promoted from League One over the past 20 seasons have found themselves playing above this level in the medium/long term than those who've found themselves back at this level or lower, and if you look at the teams and consider their style of play then most of them haven't gone up by playing what you'd describe as attritional League One football.

 

Edited January 15 by May Contain Nuts

[Chesterfield_Ram]

I think it’s an interesting model and I can see how it could help teams get promotion from L1. Without looking into it, I presume teams who gain promotion, would have around 6/7 leading players in their starting 11, with another 1 or 2 to come off the bench.

Our problem is that we have too many players in that second category of ‘good’ players who will need replacing at a higher level.

Personally , I can’t quite decide whether this is because they aren’t being used in a way that suits them, or whether they are just average L1 players. I’d probably put the following players in this group: Forsyth, Hourihane, Bradley, Barkhuizen, Collins, Waghorn, Smith, Washington, Sibley, Elder, Fornah and Ward. I find it a bit concerning that most of these were brought in during Warne’s time as manager.

As much as I love Waghorn his career is on the decline now and I only really see him as a team guy for the next season and never saw him as making to much of a goal scoring impact, like Washington, which begs the question why did we sign them? I’d like to see players signed for more than their work rate, as a proper goal scorer would be able to get more out of Collins imo. 
 

As much as I appreciate how Clowes is running the club financially, I don’t see how the club are going to be able to add players to the group 1. Would it be worth spending a bit more if the club are in a position to sign an Alfie May type of player like they were rumoured last year.

With the players we’ve been linked to, I just see us adding to the fringe players we have. I admit I haven’t seen too much of the bloke from Charlton, but I have seen quite a bit of Dobra and just see an average lightweight player who has been hyped up by an over confident fan base. He goes down far too easily, to the point that he doesn’t even win free kicks when he has been genuinely fouled because referees are used to his diving. I don’t see him as a Paul Warne player at all.