Coronavirus

[alexxxxx]

13 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Died with it or because of it? 

Its reasons-blind. There were more deaths for any reason than average in the UK and Spain as shown below alongside covid stats. 

[Gone]

Just now, alexxxxx said:

Its reasons-blind. There were more deaths for any reason than average in the UK and Spain as shown below alongside covid stats. 

From Covid or with It? 

[Stive Pesley]

5 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

From Covid or with It? 

I appreciate that you think this is some sort of "get out of jail" card when arguing your case, but it's really not - and it's boring to keep going over it. The distinction doesn't matter. Anyone trying to seriously argue that Covid-19 is no more dangerous than the regular flu is being disingenuous

From the WHO website  - i *think* they hold more sway than a GWO (geezer with opinions) on a football forum)

 

Quote

 Mortality for COVID-19 appears higher than for influenza, especially seasonal influenza. While the true mortality of COVID-19 will take some time to fully understand, the data we have so far indicate that the crude mortality ratio (the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases) is between 3-4%, the infection mortality rate (the number of reported deaths divided by the number of infections) will be lower. For seasonal influenza, mortality is usually well below 0.1%

 

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1 minute ago, SchtivePesley said:

I appreciate that you think this is some sort of "get out of jail" card when arguing your case, but it's really not - and it's boring to keep going over it. The distinction doesn't matter. Anyone trying to seriously argue that Covid-19 is no more dangerous than the regular flu is being disingenuous

Boring? Do you not think the most important question to be asked about the thing that is taking away your civil liberties, is how many people is it really killing?

I’m astounded you think that’s a boring question.

[Stive Pesley]

7 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Boring? Do you not think the most important question to be asked about the thing that is taking away your civil liberties, is how many people is it really killing?

I’m astounded you think that’s a boring question.

Boring that so many GWOs seem to be obsessing about it. "Taking away my civil liberties"?? Bit over-dramatic eh? 

Will you stop if someone close to you ends up on a ventilator?

 

[Gone]

8 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Boring that so many GWOs seem to be obsessing about it. "Taking away my civil liberties"?? Bit over-dramatic eh? 

Will you stop if someone close to you ends up on a ventilator?

 

Only being allowed to see people In groups of 6, not being able to go to football games or concerts or travel without being stuck in for 2 weeks. Kids going with out education, schools closing, Seeing business people have built their whole lives being destroyed, communities on the brink of financial collapse, huge unemployment on the horizon, non-Covid patients not getting the care they need. Over dramatic you think? oh! 
 

2nd question to try and catch me out. No I won’t, and I am pretty confident it won’t happen. 

[Stive Pesley]

5 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

I am pretty confident it won’t happen

Well I genuinely hope that you're right

But whatever - I'll just restate my point from yesterday. You banging on about this constantly won't make a blind bit of difference. Even if you convinced every single DCFfans forumite that you were right. Still wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. Does you no good getting so het up about it. 

[Gone]

1 minute ago, SchtivePesley said:

Well I genuinely hope that you're right

But whatever - I'll just restate my point from yesterday. You banging on about this constantly won't make a blind bit of difference. Even if you convinced every single DCFfans forumite that you were right. Still wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. Does you no good getting so het up about it. 

Oh I’m not upset and don’t care if it makes any difference in the world or not. I like to challenge people. I see so many sheep on this forum, I’ll continue to try and educate them. Thanks for being a faithful student 

[i-Ram]

On 15/09/2020 at 11:16, SchtivePesley said:

Still awaiting the results, but the rest of us have also come down with a horrible colds today

He's been back at school for 7 whole days and already the house is full of disease. And that's with all the social distancing, masks, hand gel, obsessive hand-wringing, etc

FTFY

[GboroRam]

1 hour ago, TexasRam said:

From Covid or with It? 

65,000 dead with it, not from it. All 65,000 were just really unlucky this year.

[Gone]

3 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

65,000 dead with it, not from it. All 65,000 were just really unlucky this year.

It’s actually 41,644 but hey why let the truth get In the way of a good bit of scaremongering. 

Could of been unlucky yes.  Covid might not have actually made a difference with some, which is my point. I don’t know and you don’t know, but it’s something we all need to know. I’d really like to see the actual figure of unfortunate people who have died from COVID, nothing else, interesting don’t you think.
Anyway if @GboroRam was quoting the figure it’d be now 70,000

[Stive Pesley]

4 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Covid might not have actually made a difference with some, which is my point. I don’t know and you don’t know, but it’s something we all need to know

So is your beef simply with the counting method? I mean - if there was an easy distinction between "with Covid" or "from Covid" - then we'd be making it right? But they have to come up with some method of counting the deaths. You don't like the answer that gives - but why? It may be that it understates the deaths as well as overstates them. You'll note there are exclusions in both directions

Quote

Number of deaths of people who had had a positive test result for COVID-19 and died within 28 days of the first positive test. The actual cause of death may not be COVID-19 in all cases. People who died from COVID-19 but had not tested positive are not included and people who died from COVID-19 more than 28 days after their first positive test are not included

And "actual cause of death" is a pointless indicator anyway. They are trying to capture as many deaths as possible where covid has been the causal trigger. 

What would be your preferred method of counting deaths? I mean really (and not just bleating about the difference between "with" and "from") - an actual working algorithm in the style of the above quote from the ONS

 

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2 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

What would be your preferred method of counting deaths

Died because COVID caused the death, they died because COVID killed them nothing else.
(Not died of a heart attacks but was positive for Covid in the last 28days as an example)

[Spanish]

1 minute ago, SchtivePesley said:

So is your beef simply with the counting method? I mean - if there was an easy distinction between "with Covid" or "from Covid" - then we'd be making it right? But they have to come up with some method of counting the deaths. You don't like the answer that gives - but why? It may be that it understates the deaths as well as overstates them. You'll note there are exclusions in both directions

And "actual cause of death" is a pointless indicator anyway. They are trying to capture as many deaths as possible where covid has been the causal trigger. 

What would be your preferred method of counting deaths? I mean really (and not just bleating about the difference between "with" and "from") - an actual working algorithm in the style of the above quote from the ONS

 

'Hospital acquired pneumonia' is a cause of many deaths  but it is not normally the reason for the hospital admission.  It is very difficult to say CV19 is the cause of death but it speeds things along.  I suppose it is whether someone is dying a day, a week, a month earlier than what would have happened is important or not.  I have had 2 friends that have died after contracting CV19, they were poorly but would have lasted a bit longer and I wish they had.  Cause of death on 1 was CV19 and the other it was not  mentioned, both were positive though.

[Gone]

12 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

So is your beef simply with the counting method?

No it’s the destruction of our way of life economically and socially. For something that isn’t as dangerous or damaging as the measures we are taking/implementing against it. That’s my beef 

[GboroRam]

34 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

It’s actually 41,644 but hey why let the truth get In the way of a good bit of scaremongering. 

Could of been unlucky yes.  Covid might not have actually made a difference with some, which is my point. I don’t know and you don’t know, but it’s something we all need to know. I’d really like to see the actual figure of unfortunate people who have died from COVID, nothing else, interesting don’t you think.
Anyway if @GboroRam was quoting the figure it’d be now 70,000

https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/news-from-the-bhf/news-archive/2020/july/what-are-excess-deaths

The sad fact is that since the Covid-19 pandemic began, there have been more than 65,000 excess deaths across the UK. This means that tragically, 65,000 more people have died than we would have expected at this stage in the year.  

 

[Gone]

Just now, GboroRam said:

https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/news-from-the-bhf/news-archive/2020/july/what-are-excess-deaths

The sad fact is that since the Covid-19 pandemic began, there have been more than 65,000 excess deaths across the UK. This means that tragically, 65,000 more people have died than we would have expected at this stage in the year.  

 

Omg the massaging and manipulation of data to fit a narrative is frightening. So you are associating every death above last years run rate as Covid related. Come on, even for you this is a bit outlandish 

[GboroRam]

12 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Omg the massaging and manipulation of data to fit a narrative is frightening. So you are associating every death above last years run rate as Covid related. Come on, even for you this is a bit outlandish 

Am I? People are trying to explain to you that, whether those deaths are from COVID or with COVID is immaterial for the 65,000 people who you are claiming died because of something other than the "flu" that this virus is. 

I agree that the numbers are mostly meaningless and I've avoided getting bogged down in trends of tests, of meaningless 24 hour death tolls and the other random number generators that this government have been pumping out. But the excess deaths for the year is the best measure we have. That's a lot of people dying this year over and above the norm.

This is not a flu. It needs people to treat it seriously.

[Stive Pesley]

32 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Died because COVID caused the death, they died because COVID killed them nothing else.

Are you serious? You realise that nobody dies from covid and nothing else?

It's a virus, and our immune system fights it off - until it doesn't (for whatever reason) at which point our immune system gets overrun and it's things like pneumonia that finish us.

Your logic says that no one dies from being stabbed They just die of blood loss. There are no fatal stabbings, just people whose blood fell out of a knife-shaped hole

[Gone]

6 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Am I? People are trying to explain to you that, whether those deaths are from COVID or with COVID is immaterial for the 65,000 people who you are claiming died because of something other than the "flu" that this virus is. 

I agree that the numbers are mostly meaningless and I've avoided getting bogged down in trends of tests, of meaningless 24 hour death tolls and the other random number generators that this government have been pumping out. But the excess deaths for the year is the best measure we have. That's a lot of people dying this year over and above the norm.

This is not a flu. It needs people to treat it seriously.

Totally disagree that you can use year on year deaths without proper disaggregation and categorisation of cause to promote your rhetoric. That’s my point, we don’t have that data.