Guest Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Never saw this daily briefing. Got to say displays like this are very embarrassing for the Government and they need calling out on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaltRam Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 16 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Maybe we should never have destroyed our own manufacturing industries in the first place. As we chased increased profits and fortunes for the few, off the back of exploited labour abroad and communities destroyed at home - no one stopped to think that we might need our own manufacturing industry one day I think most of us get your perspective on politics Schtive. Fair play, you're entitled to it. We are where we are though, and the seeming inability of the left to do anything much more than shake it's fist at the sky, rehash the 1970's and screech 'Thatcher', is harming rather than helping us. High hopes that Keir Starmer can return one of our great political institutions to a more sensible and useful position of providing solutions and ideas though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, Needlesh said: We are where we are though, and the seeming inability of the left to do anything much more than shake it's fist at the sky, rehash the 1970's and screech 'Thatcher', is harming rather than helping us. I've said this numerous times on this forum. After years of Tory cutbacks and austerity, after years of Trump being, well Trump the left can't lay a finger on the right. Coronavrirus might be a leveller in the US as their election is later this year but hopefully by the time the next one comes around in the UK it will be a distant memory. Currently the right is unified around common values but the left is split between moderates and progressives. As the Corbyn/Sanders experiments seem to have run their respective courses hopefully the left can unify around more common goals and provide effective opposition, its not healthy to have Governments with large majorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 25 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Maybe we should never have destroyed our own manufacturing industries in the first place. As we chased increased profits and fortunes for the few, off the back of exploited labour abroad and communities destroyed at home - no one stopped to think that we might need our own manufacturing industry one day ...except for you, obviously We could argue all day (and I have no intention of doing so) about who is to blame for the UK's industrial decline. There's a whole other side to the equation, though, that you've got to take into account as well. We like buying cheap stuff. Globalisation has brought about sometimes ridiculously cheap consumer goods shipped in from China/India/Bangladesh/*insert name of low cost economy It's one thing to say we should be making more of this here but is the public OK with spending 2,3,4 times as much for UK made goods that can be made in China. I saw a DVD player on Amazon a few months ago for £9.99. Delivered. Not even a Sale price. Compete with that? Yeah, OK. If anyone's interested, have a look at this below. I'm not a massive Clarkson fan but it's a good illustration of all the factors which came together to wipe out the UK car industry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 43 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Maybe we should never have destroyed our own manufacturing industries in the first place. As we chased increased profits and fortunes for the few, off the back of exploited labour abroad and communities destroyed at home - no one stopped to think that we might need our own manufacturing industry one day Douglas Murray is predicting this is the end of the culture wars as the economy is going to become such a battle. None of us would have predicted such a test so soon after Brexit. But we'll be looking back at this in 10 years time with far more certainty now. My argument has always been that as an independent nation we can make decisions faster and more attune to our needs. The aftermath of this crisis will highlight this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 19 minutes ago, maxjam said: I've said this numerous times on this forum. After years of Tory cutbacks and austerity, after years of Trump being, well Trump the left can't lay a finger on the right. Coronavrirus might be a leveller in the US as their election is later this year but hopefully by the time the next one comes around in the UK it will be a distant memory. Currently the right is unified around common values but the left is split between moderates and progressives. As the Corbyn/Sanders experiments seem to have run their respective courses hopefully the left can unify around more common goals and provide effective opposition, its not healthy to have Governments with large majorities. The dozen or so 'lefties' on here that are most vocal and we all have run ins with, don't like Keir Starmer and the direction he'll 'drag' the party in. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 54 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Maybe we should never have destroyed our own manufacturing industries in the first place. As we chased increased profits and fortunes for the few, off the back of exploited labour abroad and communities destroyed at home - no one stopped to think that we might need our own manufacturing industry one day I sympathise with your comments regarding our manufacturing industry as a whole but, in a global economy it's probably unrealistic to expect to be self sufficient in every product. I suspect that prior to this crisis, the production of virus testing kits may not have been top of your wish list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Just now, Uptherams said: Douglas Murray is predicting this is the end of the culture wars as the economy is going to become such a battle. None of us would have predicted such a test so soon after Brexit. But we'll be looking back at this in 10 years time with far more certainty now. My argument has always been that as an independent nation we can make decisions faster and more attune to our needs. The aftermath of this crisis will highlight this. If the likes of Douglas Murray would stop talking about 'a culture war', that would be a huge step in the right direction for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 48 minutes ago, Norman said: I'm not in the union. And the bonus had nothing to do with he union. The bonus that had something to do with union related to 100 quid a month which they refused. I have my hours in for my bonus. These are extra. Either way, unions were part of this great country's history and shaping it, which we can thank them for. They're just a bit pointless now. (moved to politics thread, as I don't want to derail the St George thread) I think that's a bit sad, not to support your union. I don't agree with any legislation that says you aren't allowed to withdraw your labour, which as recently as 2008 was being proposed for POA members. To say unions are pointless is ignoring a significant need for workers. I'm sure the pressure of the 33,000 members helped make sure you were appropriately recompensed for your labour. Without them, are you sure they would be as generous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, Uptherams said: The dozen or so 'lefties' on here that are most vocal and we all have run ins with, don't like Keir Starmer and the direction he'll 'drag' the party in. ? Well I personally don't think he's the answer, especially since he announced his Shadow Cabinet but its early days so time will tell I guess. As for the left being fractured nothing summed this more up for me than Joe Rogan endosing Bernie Sanders recently in the US. You would think a fairly moderate, massively popular endorsement would be just the boost your campaign needed - and indeed Bernie welcomed it with open arms. His supporters however, hated him. Not content with his endorsement potentially influencing his millions of viewers, they attacked him for not having far-left enough beliefs and daring to interview people of all poltical persuasions on his podcast - you should be deplatforming those sort of people ffs ? https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bernie-sanders-joe-rogan-2020-campaign-a9301076.html Until the left can reign in the progressives that hate everybody outside of their own little bubble they will continue to struggle to get the votes required to get anywhere near power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Highgate said: If the likes of Douglas Murray would stop talking about 'a culture war', that would be a huge step in the right direction for starters. The culture is being fuelled by the far left. Until they stop viewing everyone through their bogoted lens they will continue to watch others wield power. See my previous post for an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Just now, maxjam said: The culture is being fuelled by the far left. Until they stop viewing everyone through their bogoted lens they will continue to watch others wield power. See my previous post for an example. I think there are those on the far left that are taking things to far on certain issues. Some of Bernie Sanders voters are surely far left, but Bernie himself isn't. But I think the notion that it's only the far left that are the problem is a deeply biased one. I think the those on the far right are well capable of hating everyone outside their own bubble too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 24 minutes ago, Uptherams said: Douglas Murray is predicting this is the end of the culture wars as the economy is going to become such a battle. None of us would have predicted such a test so soon after Brexit. But we'll be looking back at this in 10 years time with far more certainty now. My argument has always been that as an independent nation we can make decisions faster and more attune to our needs. The aftermath of this crisis will highlight this. Dave Rubin said similar in America, he predicted a large win for Trump in the coming election followed by a far left meltdown. That was several months ago however before coronavirus hit which should in theory give the Democrats a very large stick to beat Trump with - although despite Trump acting increasingly deranged I still think the Democrats have lost to much support in recent times ignoring the working class man (the deplorables) and chasing progressive ideologies. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/01/donald-trump-impeachment-trial-state-of-the-union Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, maxjam said: Well I personally don't think he's the answer, especially since he announced his Shadow Cabinet but its early days so time will tell I guess. As for the left being fractured nothing summed this more up for me than Joe Rogan endosing Bernie Sanders recently in the US. You would think a fairly moderate, massively popular endorsement would be just the boost your campaign needed - and indeed Bernie welcomed it with open arms. His supporters however, hated him. Not content with his endorsement potentially influencing his millions of viewers, they attacked him for not having far-left enough beliefs and daring to interview people of all poltical persuasions on his podcast - you should be deplatforming those sort of people ffs ? https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bernie-sanders-joe-rogan-2020-campaign-a9301076.html Until the left can reign in the progressives that hate everybody outside of their own little bubble they will continue to struggle to get the votes required to get anywhere near power. Hence why the so called culture wars coming to a potential end, might put the left in a better place. As you allude to, the left eat their own. On the US, should Bernie fans back Biden.. They've been shafted yet again by the DNC. The left in the US need to beat the DNC before they beat the Republicans in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Just now, maxjam said: Dave Rubin said similar in America, he predicted a large win for Trump in the coming election followed by a far left meltdown. That was several months ago however before coronavirus hit which should in theory give the Democrats a very large stick to beat Trump with - although despite Trump acting increasingly deranged I still think the Democrats have lost to much support in recent times ignoring the working class man (the deplorables) and chasing progressive ideologies. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/01/donald-trump-impeachment-trial-state-of-the-union The Democrats are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They can't underexpose Biden, they'll just lose. But they can't overexpose him either. Trump would run rings round him. I can see Trump doing rally after rally. The DNC will do all they can with handlers to give Biden as easy a time as possible. Effectively interviews and very small scale public appearances with stooges and he'll still messup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 23 minutes ago, Highgate said: If the likes of Douglas Murray would stop talking about 'a culture war', that would be a huge step in the right direction for starters. Because? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Needlesh said: I think most of us get your perspective on politics Schtive. Fair play, you're entitled to it. We are where we are though, and the seeming inability of the left to do anything much more than shake it's fist at the sky, rehash the 1970's and screech 'Thatcher', is harming rather than helping us. High hopes that Keir Starmer can return one of our great political institutions to a more sensible and useful position of providing solutions and ideas though. Will be interesting to see what they care about the most. The EU or socialist values and all the things Jeremy was that Keir is not. Jeremy pretends to be pro EU is a proper lefty. Keir is pro EU, pretends to be a proper lefty.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 19 minutes ago, Highgate said: I think there are those on the far left that are taking things to far on certain issues. Some of Bernie Sanders voters are surely far left, but Bernie himself isn't. But I think the notion that it's only the far left that are the problem is a deeply biased one. I think the those on the far right are well capable of hating everyone outside their own bubble too. A key distinction is anyone with far right opinions will instantly get banned from social media. Heck, anyone with moderate, non progressive opinions will get banned from social media as well. Legacy media also by and large pushes a very left wing viewpoint - the Christchurch shootings were a perfect example of this. The guy was clearly a nutjob, even cited Peppa Pig as one of his motivations. But it was labelled as a Far Right crime against Muslims all around the world with support coming from every country. Shortly after an actual ISIS terrorist blew himself up inside a church on Easter Sunday in Sri Lanka iirc and every effort was made to downplay the attack, it become more notable for public figures labelling the victims as Easter Worshippers rather than Christians. The left however are given free reign on social media and a very tiny minority of people get to push the narrative down a certain path that the majority simply don't understand let alone agree with. If you say men can't be women on twitter, you're disappeared online and they come after you in real life. That filters down into the world of politics to the point that otherwise intelligent politicans can't define 'woman' in TV interviews. The majority of voters have very little in common with such authoritarian progressive viewpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Just now, Uptherams said: Because? Because constantly hyping up a non existent 'war' is never helpful. By all means let him give his views on whatever particular issue it is that's bothering him, but this 'culture war' nonsense should stop. There is always going to be a complicated spectrum of views in politics and society, so trying to polarize everything to give the impression that there is two monolithic opposed factions is just infantile. Just now, maxjam said: A key distinction is anyone with far right opinions will instantly get banned from social media. Heck, anyone with moderate, non progressive opinions will get banned from social media as well. Legacy media also by and large pushes a very left wing viewpoint - the Christchurch shootings were a perfect example of this. The guy was clearly a nutjob, even cited Peppa Pig as one of his motivations. But it was labelled as a Far Right crime against Muslims all around the world with support coming from every country. Shortly after an actual ISIS terrorist blew himself up inside a church on Easter Sunday in Sri Lanka iirc and every effort was made to downplay the attack, it become more notable for public figures labelling the victims as Easter Worshippers rather than Christians. The left however are given free reign on social media and a very tiny minority of people get to push the narrative down a certain path that the majority simply don't understand let alone agree with. If you say men can't be women on twitter, you're disappeared online and they come after you in real life. That filters down into the world of politics to the point that otherwise intelligent politicans can't define 'woman' in TV interviews. The majority of voters have very little in common with such authoritarian progressive viewpoints. I think your view of what is left-wing, moderate and right-wing is consistently skewed. But then maybe that's my own bias coming into play. I'm not sure it's fair to say the media have been downplaying ISIS attacks. It seems like the coverage of such atrocities is 24/7 when they do occur. I've always thought that such media coverage really plays into the terrorists' hands (of every type), as it just amplifies the fear and hate that the terrorists are hoping to spread. You obviously pay far more attention to how social media is policed than I do (0 attention), but given my first comment I have no choice but to doubt your conclusions. I don't think we can get into gender issues here again. It's fair the say that by definition the majority have little in common with the views of those on the extreme left or right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 20 minutes ago, Highgate said: Because constantly hyping up a non existent 'war' is never helpful. By all means let him give his views on whatever particular issue it is that's bothering him, but this 'culture war' nonsense should stop. There is always going to be a complicated spectrum of views in politics and society, so trying to polarize everything to give the impression that there is two monolithic opposed factions is just infantile. I think your view of what is left-wing, moderate and right-wing is consistently skewed. But then maybe that's my own bias coming into play. I'm not sure it's fair to say the media have been downplaying ISIS attacks. It seems like the coverage of such atrocities is 24/7 when they do occur. I've always thought that such media coverage really plays into the terrorists' hands (of every type), as it just amplifies the fear and hate that the terrorists are hoping to spread. You obviously pay far more attention to how social media is policed than I do (0 attention), but given my first comment I have no choice but to doubt your conclusions. I don't think we can get into gender issues here again. It's fair the say that by definition the majority have little in common with the views of those on the extreme left or right. You got a amazon wishlist. I'll gift you some of his books ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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