Bigfella Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 23 minutes ago, Highgate said: I think there is an objective truth out there regardless of the nature of our language. Whether we will ever be able to understand it is another question entirely. As fascinating as the block theory is to read, it's nothing new as such. Einstein expressed the same about a century ago when he wrote "the dividing line between past, present, and future is just a stubbornly persistent illusion". Or even if time does pass as we commonly imagine it, we all age at a slightly different rate, depending on our speed through space and the strength of the gravitational field at our location. So the phrase 'There is no time like the present' is literally true. I haven't a clue what time really is. The mind boggles. I have. It’s when you need to get two pints in because the bar is closing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted September 28, 2018 Author Share Posted September 28, 2018 59 minutes ago, Highgate said: I think there is an objective truth out there regardless of the nature of our language. Whether we will ever be able to understand it is another question entirely. I do too, it's what Wittgenstein alluded to as the 'mystical', ie that reality about which we can't say anything meaningful. I suspect the intuition and the imagination are the best tools we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Has anyone listened to the S-Town podcast? It's a fantastic piece of journalism that starts out as a "true crime" type thing but very quickly becomes something very different and far deeper. The main subject is a horologist and the passing of time is a central tenet - sundial mottos are a recurring motif. I never even realised they were a thing, but some very poignant stuff in there https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sundial_mottos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted October 6, 2018 Author Share Posted October 6, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 We’ve been on the drugs for so many bloody years now. Completely off our tits mostly. Everything’s a complete blur. I really have no concept of time. Charlie Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 12 hours ago, Lambchop said: It's a good quote, in terms of reminding us to live in the present, but the past and future are of equal importance. What happened in the past and what you wish to happen in the future are your guides in the present surely? Otherwise we'd all be in prison pretty quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted October 7, 2018 Author Share Posted October 7, 2018 39 minutes ago, StivePesley said: . What happened in the past and what you wish to happen in the future are your guides in the present surely? Otherwise we'd all be in prison pretty quickly Yeah, without all the fear and resentment built up from the past, and all the greed and lust projected into the future, we'd soon be in trouble. I don't think his point is to blot out learning or anticipation, but rather to notice where you put your energy, and what effect that has. How often are we actually still and fully aware, rather than rushing from one thing to the next? Do we only expect life to be alright when we eventually arrive at some other point than here and now? What he says is literally true, we only ever experience the present, yet we tend to give greater significance to memories and expectations, which are just constructs in our minds. Life can only be lived now, peace and happiness can only be found now. Realising and accepting that is actually quite liberating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Lambchop said: Yeah, without all the fear and resentment built up from the past, and all the greed and lust projected into the future, we'd soon be in trouble. I don't think his point is to blot out learning or anticipation, but rather to notice where you put your energy, and what effect that has. How often are we actually still and fully aware, rather than rushing from one thing to the next? Do we only expect life to be alright when we eventually arrive at some other point than here and now? What he says is literally true, we only ever experience the present, yet we tend to give greater significance to memories and expectations, which are just constructs in our minds. Life can only be lived now, peace and happiness can only be found now. Realising and accepting that is actually quite liberating. Surely we have experienced our past and those experiences are as significant and have as much influence on us as what we experience in the present? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted October 7, 2018 Author Share Posted October 7, 2018 32 minutes ago, Archied said: Surely we have experienced our past and those experiences are as significant and have as much influence on us as what we experience in the present? Yes, but we still only experience that significance in the present, and we can only choose how to respond to it in the present. Rather than being a fleeting millisecond which vanishes as soon as it arrives, the present is actually the point of consciousness which holds our awareness of the past and the future. This means that we aren't bound by them in quite the way that we tend to imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Well I was supposed to get a load of work done this weekend so it can be filed to court for Tuesday. I haven't but now I've got a good excuse why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 20 hours ago, Lambchop said: Yeah, without all the fear and resentment built up from the past, and all the greed and lust projected into the future, we'd soon be in trouble. Nah - built-up fear and resentment is only one part of the past, all the reward, fulfillment and happy memories are what mainly drives us. Of course we can take the fear and resentment and let that cripple us in the present - you just have to take them and make them a positive influence rather than a negative. Ironically the present does not exist. The moment you perceive it - it's already in the past, and whatever actions you take are fundamentally only a means to prolonging your existence into further future moments You're right though that people who project their greed and lust into the future get us into trouble. It's a good job we're not all like that (and there are only so many seats in the Houses of Parliament ? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 24 minutes ago, StivePesley said: Ironically the present does not exist. The moment you perceive it - it's already in the past, and whatever actions you take are fundamentally only a means to prolonging your existence into further future moments This is precisely the view that Alan Watts, and I on his behalf, since he's dead, are trying to challenge. You could say that however you choose to conceive it is just a psychological slight of hand, but the point is that the choice has existential repercussions. If you see your life as the headlong pursuit of a finite number of vanishing moments, you are likely to feel differently about it than if you see it as an eternal now, embracing past and future. You are either Buddha, wallowing in total oneness, or Camus, teetering on the edge of the abyss. That is regardless of whether time actually exists as we perceive it, from the scientific viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 44 minutes ago, Lambchop said: You are either Buddha, wallowing in total oneness, or Camus, teetering on the edge of the abyss. I am Nwankwo Camus at times I'm afraid ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 19 minutes ago, StivePesley said: I am Nwankwo Camus at times I'm afraid ? Though you might be. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 8 hours ago, StivePesley said: Nah - built-up fear and resentment is only one part of the past, all the reward, fulfillment and happy memories are what mainly drives us. Of course we can take the fear and resentment and let that cripple us in the present - you just have to take them and make them a positive influence rather than a negative. Ironically the present does not exist. The moment you perceive it - it's already in the past, and whatever actions you take are fundamentally only a means to prolonging your existence into further future moments You're right though that people who project their greed and lust into the future get us into trouble. It's a good job we're not all like that (and there are only so many seats in the Houses of Parliament ? ) That’s the point I was trying to express ( not very well ) , I’m very much in the don’t miss out on the present by always having one eye looking back and one looking forward but I think it comes down to the bite sizes you measure the present in , there really is no point wishing your life away dreaming and planning so much for the future that you don’t realise the value of what you have in the present , that said learning from past experiences is what teaches you to relish what and who you have in the present because it or they may not always be there ,,,,,,,,,,,, ouch red dwarf head ache moment alert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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