Rams release their financial results 2014/2015

[SaintRam]

Of course, losing money in a football club only reduces the value of the person if said football club is their only business venture...

If they're making 100m a year from 10 companies, losing 10m a year on the football club they're a fan of probably doesn't bother them.

Not saying MM is, I don't know much about his personal dealings (I know he's still 'out there' as an investor as I know of some companies who looked into the prospect recently) but I'm just saying it's not *necessarily* madness.

[trevor1946]

5 hours ago, eddie said:

I daresay if the rules had not been relaxed, we would have still been ok, because Derby County wouldn't have pushed the boat out breaking the club record for transfers. We'd have been looking at finishing 7th this season, with Nigel Clough still in charge.

Silly boy ,what has Nigel Clough got to do with it.i 12th with no cash---10th with no cash,good solid squad left,and ,Martin--Keogh--Hendricks--Bryson--grant--Hanson--Buxton--Russell--Forsyth--Hughes,all on Barker type fees,being paid as a last resort.So not comparable to the present set up,of spend spend,Move on he has,we have 8 games to go and our goal will have been reached-

[eddie]

2 minutes ago, trevor1946 said:

Silly boy ,what has Nigel Clough got to do with it.i 12th with no cash---10th with no cash,good solid squad left,and ,Martin--Keogh--Hendricks--Bryson--grant--Hanson--Buxton--Russell--Forsyth--Hughes,all on Barker type fees,being paid as a last resort.So not comparable to the present set up,of spend spend,Move on he has,we have 8 games to go and our goal will have been reached-

Whoosh

[EssendonRam]

If I am reading the report correctly, this means essentially we had £0.4m leeway under the FFP limit. Does this not confirm, therefore, that a replacement head coach (after outward loan dealings) really was unfeasible within FFP guidelines?

[davenportram]

6 hours ago, RamDon said:

If I am reading the report correctly, this means essentially we had £0.4m leeway under the FFP limit. Does this not confirm, therefore, that a replacement head coach (after outward loan dealings) really was unfeasible within FFP guidelines?

no because the figures are for 2014-15.

this seasons expenditure will not be assessed for FFP until December.

[EssendonRam]

4 hours ago, davenportram said:

no because the figures are for 2014-15.

this seasons expenditure will not be assessed for FFP until December.

Thanks.

I thought you lot used an October-September FY; I could have sworn that was the reason Australian banks have an Oct-Sept FY.

It turns out your financial year is the same as ours.

[davenportram]

10 minutes ago, RamDon said:

Thanks.

I thought you lot used an October-September FY; I could have sworn that was the reason Australian banks have an Oct-Sept FY.

It turns out your financial year is the same as ours.

yep. And the tax year is April to March because new year day used to be April many many years ago.

[CornwallRam]

4 minutes ago, RamDon said:

Thanks.

I thought you lot used an October-September FY; I could have sworn that was the reason Australian banks have an Oct-Sept FY.

It turns out your financial year is the same as ours.

I believe that the club use 30 June as the FY end. That's the official end of the season. I seem to remember the club used to use a slightly earlier date, but moved to coincide with the season a few years ago. It's the same date for FFP, but the submission  itself has to be made made December 1.

On your original point though, whatever settlements were given to McLaren and staff and Clement and staff will be in this year's accounts - published this time next year, but also (probably*) included in the FFP calculation . That must have reduced the headroom.

*Clubs can apply to have extraordinary expenses taken out of the FFP figures, but I've always taken that to be events such as fires or floods, not paying off unwanted staff.

[CornwallRam]

Actually, I've just checked and McLaren was sacked 25 May, so it's possible that his settlement is included in last season's accounts. Logically then, it looks like we can afford to sack a manager a season and stay within even the harshest of FFP rules.

[EssendonRam]

37 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

Actually, I've just checked and McLaren was sacked 25 May, so it's possible that his settlement is included in last season's accounts. Logically then, it looks like we can afford to sack a manager a season and stay within even the harshest of FFP rules.

Don't forget we (quite disgracefully) tried to quibble over his payout...

[davenportram]

20 minutes ago, RamDon said:

Don't forget we (quite disgracefully) tried to quibble over his payout...

but the announcement of him leaving would probably have been made once it was all agreed though.

[ramblur]

Seem to remember last autumn that I was leaving the forum for a week to fight a chest infection -famous last words,I've had a gruesome winter culminating in my GP taking a spirometer reading a couple of months ago indicating that I had the lung performance of a 103 year old! It was only a nebuliser session bringing it down to a sprightly 94 yr old that saved me from yet another hospital stay.To cap it all,a drug which had shown promise in controlling my acquired haemophillia became innefective,so I had to go on yet another big steroid dose,which has only just reduced to a level that doesn't give me grief (although I'm almost a cert to sample the delights of osteoporosis,if I survive that long).The chest problems may well mean that the pulmonary fibrosis hasn't been arrested,but I go for tests next month-if the results are bad,my outlook is very bleak.Anyway,I've promised myself that I'll only return here for tonight and as much of tomorrow as I can manage.

Although the accounts are now out,I want to devote the majority of this post to DiagRam,if he's still willing to analyse the accounts. I'm just not up to going into any details and may even have to split the post up. So,hi mate,hope you're ok.It appears we were both right to scratch our heads over the 14/15 results and FFP (although I always acknowledged it was guesswork,I couldn't work out why I was so far over) ,because it appears we've only been 'saved' by exceptional income of £3m,which just happens to be the amount of this rather attractive looking unsecured/no repayment date/no interest (bet we'd all like some of that) Co-op loan.Now I don't remember seeing any of this in 13/14,so I went to have a look.Only £15m was shown as repayable within 12 months,yet the 14/15 accounts (which gives the comparative 13/14 figure) gives this figure at £18m! Looking at the analysis of change in net cash flow to change in net debt,I did notice that there was a £3m gain recorded in relation to the mortgage repayment,so that (somehow,by some financial wizardry) must be it.I always did like the cut of Stephen Pearce. My own guess (and it's only that) is that this £3m may have been shelved as part of the settlement,perhaps becoming payable only upon promotion.That might possibly create an environment whereby the debt is (almost) written off and (almost) justify an exceptional gain -what do you reckon?

Of course,the other thing then is that this particular exceptional income can't be repeated this year,which initially meant that I didn't think we had a cat in hell's chance in meeting this year's £13m.......until I started thinking.We now have internal debt in respect of the stadium loan,which means that Mel 'owns' the debt owed to Global Derby and the liability within DCFC, so it'd be no skin off his nose to write off part of this debt to generate more exceptional profit to play with,if needs be (and there's £12m to play with). I did point out to members when the QPR business came up that what they did might actually be allowable under FFP.

Anyway,taking a break now and will get back to you shortly,as there are one or two things I wanted to mention.I can't guarantee to answer any posts tonight,nor can I guarantee to be around tmw. Tonight's one of my better nights,which ain't saying much.

[TomBustler1884]

Relieved to see you're okay @ramblur think we were all worried about you.

[Boycie]

Hope everything gets a bit better Ramblur.

[eddie]

Sounds as though we've got about one lung between us, @ramblur.

Keep fighting, mate.

[Guest]

Great to hear from you Ramblur.

you have probably read about Leicesters attempt to avoid FFP penalties......whereby they seemingly gave the sponsorship rights to an unknown start up business, who managed to get a load more income for them......from the same sponsor.....King Power who are owned by Leicesters owners. 

FL still investigating if the increase was valid, and imho if it passes accounting. Audit standards how can the FL 

what I am trying to say is, there are many ways we can stay safely within FFP.....IF we are still in the FL next year.

 

take care and great to hear from you, although the medical update is sadly not as good as you would like.

keep battling away, and all the best. 

[ramblur]

30 minutes ago, The 1884 Group said:

Relieved to see you're okay @ramblur think we were all worried about you.

Thanks for that,and thanks to any others for well wishes-I can't do what I want to do tonight and reply to you all.Suppose I'm being greedy (as have seen a lot of Rams good times),but I badly want to see Jake turn out in the Prem. Anyhow,although I'm not going to go into accounts detail,I will say that PBSE shows a £22m spend on players in summer.As I anticipated might happen (surprised we were allowed to play for so long) all of the accounts are now signed off in November,so we no longer get to find the Jan spend by subtracting one PBSE from the other.

[Guest]

Best bit in accounts is fact we made £2m + from playoffs...heaven forbid we lose at Wembley again, but it sure is a lot of money towards helping us stay right side of FFP.

thr PBSE costs will be circa £6m per year over four years. Wages though likely to have increased by at least £5M, more likely closer to £10M 

so on a year on year basis we could be £11M to £16M worse off.

 

 

[ramblur]

Again,apologies,because this is mainly directed to DR -the only reason I'm doing it openly is because others may find it of interest.As you may have seen,the Global Derby annual return came out a couple of months ago,reflecting share movements post takeover and featuring 2 new companies,one of which is alluded to in the accounts.If you haven't seen same,I'd advise you to at least be aware of (not a free download,and I didn't even look at it myself,as I'd a pretty good idea what it was all about) an earlier resolution re reduction of issued share capital.

For the benefit of other members,this doesn't mean any loot has been taken out,just a bit of tidying up.There's a danger that someone unqualified may look at the initial documents of one of these new companies,do a simple calculation,and tell you all that he/she knows how much Mel paid to acquire the club.This would be based on an assumption,and could just as easily be wrong as right. Also,(on a different note)Companies House documents never give %age share holdings -you have to work this out,and you have to know what you're doing.So beware!

[ramblur]

Again for DR I'm afraid.You might like to keep an eye on Derby County Stadium Ltd,a company shown as dormant within the group for a number of years now.This is all purely from memory,but it was the original vehicle for PP stadium and the opening capitalisation (including share premium) was £2.5m (mainly Lionel,but equal,lesser shares for Gadsby/Webb/Kirkland),which was supplemented by various loans.I think about £14m was spent in the first year,which became about £21m in year 2.Rental was charged to DCFC initially,but it was eventually reversed into DCFC,apart from a small piece (in value) of adjoining land,which was subsequently sold at a decent profit.I vaguely remember leisure being mentioned and that the company was to be involved in the development.When the amigos landed,there was some doubt as to whether DCFC would be able to repay a loan to the company,and I seem to remember this was got round by introducing a hefty admin fee,which had the effect of leaving the only 2 entries in the company's accounts as the £2.5m capital ,wiped out by an accumulated £2.5m loss.Again,this is from memory only, but there isn't a great deal to the accounts if you want to have a look. The reason I mention it is that the company's objectives switched from stadium build to development of land around same,so If the Plaza were ever built,this could well be the likely vehicle.