SaintRam Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 10 minutes ago, ValeRam said: Not sure, If I was Cheltenham, that I would be too impressed with receiving an offer three times as much as the previous one less than a week later - its like taking the Mick and treating them disrespectfully . I would play the bidding war game if I was them and keep holding out. If someone immediately triples their offer the first time you say no, who knows where you could get to. From our point of view, £100,000 is a huge amount of money to pay for a 16 year old who has never played a game and who will not, even if all goes well, approach anything like his peak for another 5-10 years minimum. Massive gamble. Sounds a bit like Varneyitis. Strange thing to do by DCFC in my book - perhaps shows we don't have too much faith in our own production line despite all the back-slapping in the last match day programme ? All the foreign players we've signed from around Europe, like Emil Riis, were not free. I'd be surprised if this is the most we've spent on a youth, it just didn't make the news. What it says is how much faith we have in the academy structure to nurture good players out of them. You can't blindly rely on your local Derby crop, to maintain Cat one status you have to have both the facilities and the youth players need to keep stepping up, maintaining Cat One status is expensive as hell for the Club (More facilities, loads of full-time employees etc.). For it to be financially viable you have to do as much as possible to improve the chance of players making the leap. Like signing players for the academy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 12 minutes ago, ValeRam said: Not sure, If I was Cheltenham, that I would be too impressed with receiving an offer three times as much as the previous one less than a week later - its like taking the Mick and treating them disrespectfully . I would play the bidding war game if I was them and keep holding out. If someone immediately triples their offer the first time you say no, who knows where you could get to. From our point of view, £100,000 is a huge amount of money to pay for a 16 year old who has never played a game and who will not, even if all goes well, approach anything like his peak for another 5-10 years minimum. Massive gamble. Sounds a bit like Varneyitis. Strange thing to do by DCFC in my book - perhaps shows we don't have too much faith in our own production line despite all the back-slapping in the last match day programme ? I think that's what they're probably doing right now. Both times we've made offers it's been released to their local press and I imagine this it to let the other clubs interested know so they can possibly try and better our offer Disagree with the last 2 paragraphs of your post though. 100k is definitely a risk worth taking if in several years he's being sold for 100 times that amount And it's not like we're signing a whole new academy team and ditching the current crop. Adding 2 or 3 top talents from the lower leagues to our u18s/u21 squads isn't going to do any harm, it's just more competition for places and can hopefully make the rest up their game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 He's clearly still got some developing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 6 minutes ago, StringerBell said: He's clearly still got some developing to do. 5 seconds in and that's as good a goal line clearance you'll see. Sign him up. Got some pace on him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValeRam Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 18 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said: I think that's what they're probably doing right now. Both times we've made offers it's been released to their local press and I imagine this it to let the other clubs interested know so they can possibly try and better our offer Disagree with the last 2 paragraphs of your post though. 100k is definitely a risk worth taking if in several years he's being sold for 100 times that amount And it's not like we're signing a whole new academy team and ditching the current crop. Adding 2 or 3 top talents from the lower leagues to our u18s/u21 squads isn't going to do any harm, it's just more competition for places and can hopefully make the rest up their game Its absolutely staggering how quickly perceptions change in football Five years ago, the idea that we would be prepared to gamble (i.e. be prepared to throw away) £100k on a 16 year old who had never played a senior game of football in his life would have been regarded as laughable at best, shockingly inept at worst. Now that we have a fairly well-off benefactor its incredible how good some have got at spending someone else's money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 38 minutes ago, ValeRam said: Cost being irrelevant ? It is impossible to say if he is worth 100k or not. If the club deem it worthwhile then so be it. Could a club put in a bid for 75k this week so we have gone in with 100k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 4 minutes ago, ValeRam said: Its absolutely staggering how quickly perceptions change in football Five years ago, the idea that we would be prepared to gamble (i.e. be prepared to throw away) £100k on a 16 year old who had never played a senior game of football in his life would have been regarded as laughable at best, shockingly inept at worst. Now that we have a fairly well-off benefactor its incredible how good some have got at spending someone else's money. Give over. Mel has already made the 100k offer. It's not a case of me and others 'spending someone else's money,' we're just either agreeing/disagreeing with Mel's decision to make an offer on this lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 17 minutes ago, ValeRam said: Its absolutely staggering how quickly perceptions change in football Five years ago, the idea that we would be prepared to gamble (i.e. be prepared to throw away) £100k on a 16 year old who had never played a senior game of football in his life would have been regarded as laughable at best, shockingly inept at worst. Now that we have a fairly well-off benefactor its incredible how good some have got at spending someone else's money. That's very presumptuous of you and wide of the mark. First of all, my perception hasn't changed at all, I doubt Cam's has either, but how would you know that anyway. Secondly what's changed in 5 years? "Money is ruining football"? "Prices for footballers are becoming extortionate"? No, not really. There are cases that could be said about (Sterling, for example) but it's not generally true about youth set-ups. So what has changed? Oh yes, Derby is now a club with a category one academy. Derby made the decision to seek Category One status, it is not simply granted, you have to work to meet the requirements. When you have a Category One academy you BUY youth players. This has been true for years and it is the main income of many non-league sides. Derby will have budgeted a "transfer fund" for the academy just as they do for the first team. Of course every youth signing is a gamble by nature, all you're buying is potential, nothing else. But if you don't buy potential, you don't get stars coming into your team. And paying all of the wages to maintain your Cat 1 status is wasted. Just rely on the crop that your scouts pick out from the local area and you get one every 3-10 years, which you'll achieve with any Cat academy anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValeRam Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 7 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said: Give over. Mel has already made the 100k offer. It's not a case of me and others 'spending someone else's money,' we're just either agreeing/disagreeing with Mel's decision to make an offer on this lad. Thats happy-clapper speak I'm saying the club are making a mistake in this case, and I have set out why I believe that. Happy for you to have an alternative view though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 1 hour ago, SaintRam said: 5 seconds in and that's as good a goal line clearance you'll see. Sign him up. Got some pace on him too. We should go in for Alex too. Sat on his arse just like Chris Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 1 hour ago, ValeRam said: Thats happy-clapper speak I'm saying the club are making a mistake in this case, and I have set out why I believe that. Happy for you to have an alternative view though It's a classic case of the proof of the pudding being in the eating. Mmmmmm, pudding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 7 hours ago, LesterRam said: we cant get this guy, it would be near impossible for puns, I really want Cummings to come No wonder we could not get Puncheon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Remember the epic Thorne thread. "Pay what they want or move on" I hope to sell my car to someone with this attitude to buying things. I'm going to have your pants down innit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 2 minutes ago, Alpha said: Remember the epic Thorne thread. "Pay what they want or move on" I hope to sell my car to someone with this attitude to buying things. I'm going to have your pants down innit That I can agree with. What they "want", the fans at least, is far too high. But the fact this bid hasn't been instantly publicly rejected suggests it's being considered, and I think 100k + % profit (which is most likely but obviously I don't know) is a good price for a youth this highly rated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 All footballers called "Luke" go from promising youngsters to donkeys. He's tried to counter it by having two first names. Fair play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 7 minutes ago, Alpha said: All footballers called "Luke" go from promising youngsters to donkeys. He's tried to counter it by having two first names. Fair play I typed in "Luke" on transfermarkt as I couldn't think of any. And the #1 most valuable is Luke Shaw. #2 and #3 are Jordan Rhodes and Jacob Butterfield? lol #4 and #5 are Nathan Baker and Ashley Barnes Middle names must be Luke? I don't know. EDIT: Yeah it is their middle names. "Name in home country: Jacob Luke Butterfield." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 7 hours ago, SaintRam said: I typed in "Luke" on transfermarkt as I couldn't think of any. And the #1 most valuable is Luke Shaw. #2 and #3 are Jordan Rhodes and Jacob Butterfield? lol #4 and #5 are Nathan Baker and Ashley Barnes Middle names must be Luke? I don't know. EDIT: Yeah it is their middle names. "Name in home country: Jacob Luke Butterfield." You'd not forgotten our very own Moore and Varney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 1 minute ago, Alpha said: You'd not forgotten our very own Moore and Varney No, I remembered them, but they're terrible. I was trying to think of good Lukes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 14 minutes ago, SaintRam said: No, I remembered them, but they're terrible. I was trying to think of good Lukes. If you're desperate you could count Luuk De Jong. Honestly, we're willing to pay £100k too much here. Don't even need to see him play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 4 minutes ago, Alpha said: If you're desperate you could count Luuk De Jong. Honestly, we're willing to pay £100k too much here. Don't even need to see him play. Probably, when the second most valuable Luke in world football is called Jordan you know it's never going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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