LesterRam Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 lets not have a personal attack on the elderly chaps, everybody deserves a secure retirement, between the work shy and mass migration we have a problem. unfortunately the government decides that because working families are less likely to vote he picks on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shang Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 4 minutes ago, Ovis aries said: Nothing said about the millions of people that never lived to draw pension or very little of it . Now people are living a bit longer they are drawing what they are entitled to , my father died at 66 so did my mother.. This just goes back to people that have a few bob and can not stand the "common people" being able to have a comfortable last few years , they want people to die as soon as they finish work , you can have a pension but you must NOT live to enjoy it. The pensions of those who die and never live to use it, it gets passed down to their children or next of kin through their estate (which is generous because of inheritance tax). They make use of it. However, this generation won't be able to do as well out of it, because the age of retirement is predicted to be 10-15 years higher (and people are predicting they're going to be abolishing retirement age!). So we will be older than 75-80 years old before we can even touch our pensions. We're effectively paying in more, to get a lot lot less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 4 minutes ago, Shang said: The pensions of those who die and never live to use it, it gets passed down to their children or next of kin through their estate (which is generous because of inheritance tax). They make use of it. However, this generation won't be able to do as well out of it, because the age of retirement is predicted to be 10-15 years higher (and people are predicting they're going to be abolishing retirement age!). So we will be older than 75-80 years old before we can even touch our pensions. We're effectively paying in more, to get a lot lot less. So you want to die early then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I think the point that is getting lost is that my generation is having a harder time of coping financially than my parents did and do (they are baby boomers). My kids are probably going to have a harder time of it than I did. Tinkering with the retirement age is all well and good but at some point, the nettle of unafordable pensions is going to have to be grasped. Unfortunately, it's the older generation who are most likely to vote and it's therefore unlikely to happen any time soon & probably until it's too late to avoid a real fiancial mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shang Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 12 minutes ago, Ovis aries said: So who do you think lends you that £9000 to start with ? Currently, 70p from my pay packet each month pays for people to go to university. Compared to the £4.58 a month I pay to keep pensions at the level they are right now. (source: http://wheredoesmymoneygo.org/dailybread.html) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I lost thousands from my pension pot about 10 years before I retired , thousands , a bit of a recovery over the last few years plus me paying as much into it as I could manager finally got it back to a sum that I could get a pension I could live on . I am sorry if people feel I am self centred but I do not feel I have or will rob anyone . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 50 minutes ago, Ovis aries said: I lost thousands from my pension pot about 10 years before I retired , thousands , a bit of a recovery over the last few years plus me paying as much into it as I could manager finally got it back to a sum that I could get a pension I could live on . I am sorry if people feel I am self centred but I do not feel I have or will rob anyone . I feel for you Ovis, my old man thought he was set fair for retirement, only for his pension to go tits up a couple of years before it was due to start, as a result he's only now reduced his hours to 24 p/w on his 73rd birthday, down from the 40 hrs p/w he worked previous, physical job too and it shows. However, the point still stands, we are raising the first generation in modern history who will be poorer in real terms than their parents, it's certainly not the case that you or anyone like you has robbed them, but someone has, and the bustards at the top of the pile get clean away with it every time! It's not that the state is too generous to pensioners that's the problem, it's that the state are too generous to the multi-national tax dodging corporations blatantly taking the piss that people should be furious about, but aren't, maybe we get the representation we deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValeRam Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 2 hours ago, Shang said: The pensions of those who die and never live to use it, it gets passed down to their children or next of kin through their estate (which is generous because of inheritance tax). They make use of it. However, this generation won't be able to do as well out of it, because the age of retirement is predicted to be 10-15 years higher (and people are predicting they're going to be abolishing retirement age!). So we will be older than 75-80 years old before we can even touch our pensions. We're effectively paying in more, to get a lot lot less. Not entirely correct I'm afraid, although I wish it were In many cases the pension providers profit when pensioners pass away - their 'unused' pensions are not transferred to next of kin at all , especially if the spouse has already passed away. It is one of true greatest scandals of modern society. Pension providers gain from people who 'die early' despite them having contributed for years and years to improving their nest eggs, as they have been advised to by government after government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shang Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 19 minutes ago, ValeRam said: Not entirely correct I'm afraid, although I wish it were In many cases the pension providers profit when pensioners pass away - their 'unused' pensions are not transferred to next of kin at all , especially if the spouse has already passed away. It is one of true greatest scandals of modern society. Pension providers gain from people who 'die early' despite them having contributed for years and years to improving their nest eggs, as they have been advised to by government after government. I'm sure that happens. I did have a pension provider come into our company and they told us that new rules mean that you have to either nominate a person, and if you didn't nominate someone it went to a trust whos job is to find the best suited person to get the pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValeRam Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 14 minutes ago, Shang said: I'm sure that happens. I did have a pension provider come into our company and they told us that new rules mean that you have to either nominate a person, and if you didn't nominate someone it went to a trust whos job is to find the best suited person to get the pension. It all depends on the nature of the pension, Shang, as far as my limited knowledge goes. If you are a provider to a defined-benefits, "pay-as-you-go" pension it means that you get out what you put in. There is no "percentage of final salary " malarky. Its pretty much the same as paying a fixed amount into a Building Society account month after month, hopefully matched by your employer. That pot is then your money when you retire and it would all pass down to whoever your descendants were if you passed away. But for many employees, especially in the public sector, your pension amount is based on "final salary" status. Which is all well and good, but in some cases, irrespective of what you put in, if you pass away early, nothing is provided to your dependants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 When my pension matured you could only take 25% as a lump sum the rest you had to buy an annuity Now you can take it all but it is taxable, another diabolical way that the government rob the soul out of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 These financial threads are doom and gloom but I must admit I ain't as well off as my parents. The first house they bought cost £2000. Wages and standards of living flew up as did house prices back in the day. Now things seem to have leveled out. As for getting old I may as well carry on drinking, smoking and eating bacon butties because I don't want to be sat in my own piss waiting to get my trousers changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 5 hours ago, Ovis aries said: Its a load of ******** , its not about the millions of ordinary working people that struggled to put a little into a private pension to have a bit of comfort in their retirement , what do you want peoples grand parents to do live in a ******* tent , and get their food fro food banks. I am 72, have a very moderate income from my private pension and I pay £30/35 a week income tax, I sponge off of no one, and never have done. Well yes, but youre talking about your private pension. The poster is talking about the combination of Public Sector pensions and State pensions. These are to be paid for by taxpayers , and as he says there is no Government fund to pay for them. So in addition to the £1.5 trillion of of National Debt which the Government officially recognises there is an addition sums of several trillions in debt due to these other pensions. It isn't drivel at all, it's entirely true, and something which so many people just do not want to talk about or hear about. It's very very scary. Theres no easy answers ... I don't think anyone is blaming the current pensioners sponging off society ... That's not the case at all. but there is a time bomb ticking and someday that is going to explode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 6 hours ago, AnimalisaRam said: I am soon to be auto-enrolled onto a workplace pension. I can't say I'm well informed on the subject, is it worth it? Or would it be better to simply go out and find a private pot? I don't particularly earn very much in order to contribute, but as my hand is being nudged, if not forced - what are the alternatives? Best advice is to start taking a real interest in your retirement now and do some basic research on the pensions and the pensions industry. You do that now, I gurantee you'll be ahead of 95% of the population. Most people in my experience have absolutely no interest and consequently no knowledge about maximizing the most important financial vehicle they'll ever pay into in their life. And maximising is nothing to do with how much you put away each month, don't be discouraged by only being able to afford small amounts, it will soon build if you look after it well. The power of compound interest can earn you a LOT of money over 40 years, starting from a very small amount. And when I say basic research, learn about the differences between actively managed funds and passive funds. Then compare the average returns of the two different types and the costs. Learn about accumulation and income funds. Learn about compound interest. Learn about a balanced portfolio. Really basic things. Once you know a bit, you're well on the road to making yourself considerably wealthier in retirement (providing you start early) than the average Joe. Learn a bit more than that and you'd soon be getting your work to pay into your own SIPP (learn what this is), picking all of your own funds (for a fraction of the cost of your workplace pensions) and taking an enormous amount of satisfaction knowing you're pro-actively taking care of your future. You may set your own SIPP up independently of work and chuck a few quid in each month instead of your savings account/bank account. By the way always, always sign up to your workplace pension when they are offering you a contribution. Turn it down and you're turning down an effective pay rise. Take an interest in the funds/portfolio choice that your pension provider is investing the contributions in, you should get a pack with all the information in. I believe they may give you a set of portfolio "profiles" to choose from, the basic idea being people approaching retirement are in capital preservation/income mode and those starting out are (should be) in capital appreciation mode. This basically means young people should take on more risk for capital growth (common sense: you can survive multiple stock market crashes before you retire and therefore can ride the market through) and scale the risk down to suit or as you get older. Important to choose wisely, its one of the most important forms you'll ever fill in! You should have the choice to invest in your own choice of funds too, I'd recommend doing so but I can understand if this is daunting, one ought to know the basics first (I did this when I was younger, before the SIPP days - picking the lowest cost funds which just tracked the overall market). Don't think that you can't manage your own affairs by the way. Encourage anyone to do so. A little bit of basic knowledge which amounts to as little as investing in low cost tracker funds and you've basically just eliminated the need for ever consulting a financial adviser/pensions adviser (they won't beat them and even if they did outperform their scandalous costs would mean you're still way out of pocket!). Good luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 4 minutes ago, PistoldPete2 said: Well yes, but youre talking about your private pension. The poster is talking about the combination of Public Sector pensions and State pensions. These are to be paid for by taxpayers , and as he says there is no Government fund to pay for them. So in addition to the £1.5 trillion of of National Debt which the Government officially recognises there is an addition sums of several trillions in debt due to these other pensions. It isn't drivel at all, it's entirely true, and something which so many people just do not want to talk about or hear about. It's very very scary. Theres no easy answers ... I don't think anyone is blaming the current pensioners sponging off society ... That's not the case at all. but there is a time bomb ticking and someday that is going to explode. It is purely and simply down to people living longer, if the majority of folk died before they reached 70 like they used to there would be no problem. That's what the human race gets for being clever f*****s , maybe a good world war and the failure of antibiotics will solve the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketteringram Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 3 hours ago, Shang said: Currently, 70p from my pay packet each month pays for people to go to university. Compared to the £4.58 a month I pay to keep pensions at the level they are right now. (source: http://wheredoesmymoneygo.org/dailybread.html) What pensions are you talking about, that you are keeping high? Surely not the state pension? Can't be private pensions or company pensions. Far as I know, you are not paying anything into mine. I'm paying nearly £700 a month into it. When I stop working, and start using it, I'm not sure how I'm ripping anyone off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketteringram Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 6 hours ago, AnimalisaRam said: I am soon to be auto-enrolled onto a workplace pension. I can't say I'm well informed on the subject, is it worth it? Or would it be better to simply go out and find a private pot? I don't particularly earn very much in order to contribute, but as my hand is being nudged, if not forced - what are the alternatives? Sillybilly gives good advice just now, but even if you can't be bothered too much, then at least make sure you pay in as much as you can, especially if company are matching your contributions. Also, try to increase them each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shang Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Legally by law your company has to top up your pension when the auto enrolment comes into effect. I think it's in yearly steps, but it requires a minimum contribution on your part. Think it was 1% of wage for 1% (effective 2%), 2% of wage for 3% top up (effective 5%) and 3% for 5% (effective 8%). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shang Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 35 minutes ago, Ovis aries said: It is purely and simply down to people living longer, if the majority of folk died before they reached 70 like they used to there would be no problem. That's what the human race gets for being clever f*****s , maybe a good world war and the failure of antibiotics will solve the problem Well not quite. It's a lot more complicated than that. The returns for pensions were defined in an era where everyone lived very well and could afford to contribute for pensions, but now its more of a strain on the tax payer. The pension system is not fit for purpose anymore, since it doesn't pay enough at the very basic rate (no one can live on the basic state pension), and the traditional ways of supplementing it (owning bricks and mortar and other savings) are now not in reach of the everyday worker. No doubt the age strain is having an effect especially combined with having to contribute more to the NHS for people living longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 6 hours ago, AnimalisaRam said: I am soon to be auto-enrolled onto a workplace pension. I can't say I'm well informed on the subject, is it worth it? Or would it be better to simply go out and find a private pot? I don't particularly earn very much in order to contribute, but as my hand is being nudged, if not forced - what are the alternatives? A decent rule of thumb is to save half your age as a percentage towards your retirement, from the moment you start. If you start at 20 years old, invest 10% of your earnings from that point on, start saving as a 40 year old save 20%, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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