Richard Keogh

[DEL]

Apparently Bucko is going to Birmingham, Keogh plus cash for shackell, Martin going too and Rhodes in this week, so it's gonna be a very busy week and this is of a reliable source.

 

Reliable source? My arse. 

[cloughandtaylor]

If you find a CB like that in the Champ i'll be surprised.

All the captain stuff is rubbish. People always going on about it. Anyone ever played football? Have you EVER looked to your captain for anything?

No. You listen to players you like and respect. 

Nobody here knows how popular, respected or liked Keogh is. They judge his captaincy based on lip reading and arm movements. 

Not aiming this at you especially but I just keep reading it. Like players are robots and you program them. 

They're actual people with real relationships we know nothing about. The guy who looks a great captain to you might be sat on his own in the canteen everyday because he gets on people's nerves. You might like the way he shouts and points but maybe nobody is listening. 

I don't know where all this captain talk comes from. Think about your own football days. 

Hand on heart I never listened to one of my captains. He was a head it and kick it CB. A giant hoof merchant. All he wanted was protecting and the ball as far away from our goal as possible. He'd scream if you passed sideways in your own half. He was good. Stronger and faster than any lad he played against. Taller too. But his leadership was all based around him. No comforting words for errors high up the pitch. No interest in anything that went on over the halfway line. Nice lad, good blocker. Best defender I've played with. Never listened to him. Always glued to the manager though which set him apart a bit.

I listened to the lad next to him. A lad who was good on the ball but fairly weak defending. He'd played center midfield for a few years but was put in defence because it was the only way the ball ever left the CB's on the floor. But he was a great lad. Always one of the lads too. Not glued to the manager. He just quite quietly went about his job. He'd come over and have a quiet word if he felt exposed. He'd let you know if he'd noticed something bad keep happening and he'd ask and suggest what you can do. But he made you want to help rather than feel like you had to.He wouldn't make you scared of trying stuff and he never moaned. He was everybody's secret captain. Never wore the armband though. 

You can't pick a captain from up in the stands. 

And players pick their leaders anyway.

A captain is mostly a natural leader, but also the person that can 'read' the game, has the natural ability to know where the ball will be played -[almost one step ahead],  he is constantly organising his defence, he can mentor the kids, even if his legs are a 'gone'  - he is the brain behind the side.

None of the above fit Keogh!

As I have previously said I have no problems with Keogh the man, I have never abused him at a match, but a defender of stature that we require to get into the prem -he is not!

Listen, from March onwards, when we had all those injuries and we had players in and out most weeks, we needed the captain to lead by example to organise the defenders around him, I did not see that happen, all the defence cock ups are not solely Keogh's  - but as captain we needed better leadership, we needed mentoring of those around him that were  struggling and instead we had capitulation of the defence.

For all the positive new signings we have had, we still have the same issue as we had from March onwards frailties in defence- will Pearce and Baird improve things?

Maybe, but we need a captain that can lead.

[Alph]

You put way too much on the captains armband. He's not a manager. 

You didn't see him organise the defence? That's some long distance lip reading. Isn't that the managers job.

Any group of lads will have leaders naturally. You don't stick an armband on one and the lads suddenly start listening to him and respecting him.

None of us know the relationships between players. The communication. 

[Anag Ram]

You put way too much on the captains armband. He's not a manager. 

You didn't see him organise the defence? That's some long distance lip reading. Isn't that the managers job.

Any group of lads will have leaders naturally. You don't stick an armband on one and the lads suddenly start listening to him and respecting him.

None of us know the relationships between players. The communication. 

No. The manager can coach the defence but on the field the defence talks to one another all the time. There has to be one who leads, though, and he calls the line. Typically, that's the centre half and when he's the captain, it's certainly him.

Think Tony Adams.

It's not just Keogh, though. our full-backs don't get themselves cover from the likes of Russell and Ince.

A team needs to be able to defend from 1 to 11 to be successful.

[May Contain Nuts]

Alpha's story seems a bit too convenient for me, with the not so subtle references to bringing the ball out of defence I was half expecting it to end with "...and do you know who these 2 players, Jason & Richard, went on to play for?"

 

ps I'm NOT saying that it isn't a true and accurate representation of real life events

[cloughandtaylor]

You put way too much on the captains armband. He's not a manager. 

You didn't see him organise the defence? That's some long distance lip reading. Isn't that the managers job.

Any group of lads will have leaders naturally. You don't stick an armband on one and the lads suddenly start listening to him and respecting him.

None of us know the relationships between players. The communication. 

Manager and captain are too different people!

The captain is the manager on the field- he who leads, he who organises, he who has the football brain.......generally the most experienced player......

Watch the games. watch the penalty area,  watch when we are defending set pieces........

[Alph]

Alpha's story seems a bit too convenient for me, with the not so subtle references to bringing the ball out of defence I was half expecting it to end with "...and do you know who these 2 players, Jason & Richard, went on to play for?"

 

ps I'm NOT saying that it isn't a true and accurate representation of real life events

Ha! No it was real enough.  The big CB captain would never make a footballer. He was a bully with zero footballing skill. He was more Mark O'Brien than Jason or Richard 

My point was more about how from the outside everybody would think our captain was this big inspiring figure of authority and bravery. All shouting and pointing. It's just all his shouting was about what you can do for him. Just helping himself. Being the managers pet didn't help. 

I just don't think an armband means much. You take the armband from Keogh and if he's a popular figure and sort of an alpha male of the group then he'll still lead. You give it to Cyrus Christie and people won't suddenly look to him for guidance. 

I don't understand fans concern with the armband. Leaders amongst groups of lads is natural. You can't stop someone being a leader or make a leader you like. And group the size of this group (20 people) will have sub groups and more leaders. Especially now we've specifically targeted players who are vocal leaders at previous clubs. 

Nobody ever saw a captain not working hard or ducking a tackle and thought that it would be ok for them to do it to. I won't believe it. You will always take advice and criticism from the lad(s) you like and who you feel help you. 

Nobody can judge Keogh on that unless you're close to the group. 

 

[Alph]

Manager and captain are too different people!

The captain is the manager on the field- he who leads, he who organises, he who has the football brain.......generally the most experienced player......

Watch the games. watch the penalty area,  watch when we are defending set pieces........

Right, what am I looking for? 

I'm seeing Keogh shouting and pointing and signalling the line. Unless Raul is playing weirdly enough. Then he seems to do a lot of that. 

But I can't hear what's being said when he's in someone's ear or if they listen. 

[elramdaoui]

Keogh is off to Burnley. Judging from some of the figures banded about a few weeks ago (£4m to Newcastle?) I'd like us to get Shackle + money, but can't really see that happening. Likely to be something near to a straight swap.

[Super_Rams]

Keogh............where to start!

Sat in the south right behind him is enough to trigger a heart attack a dozen times a game. We all see the pass that he never does, he runs up the pitch then waits for 2 players to charge him down then tries to pass between them and gets dispossessed. Which results in a gap behind him as he stands there looking all annoyed and pointing at others! I'm not saying he's a bad player all the time but his decisions are either late or wrong, his passes are rarely on target & why does he pass like he's in a Harry Enfield sketch show???

As for the armband I'd give it Bucko the football genius 

[swadieram]

Spot on ! 

[Thierry Ennui]

So much rubbish. Stats-wise his passing is fine. He loses the ball way less than our full backs. 

[Derbylad92]

Keogh is one of the best defenders in the league but if he could stop being so reliable on making a mistake he could quite easily make a steady prem player he just needs someone to partner him I think it b a mistake to get rid he's got his best years ahead of him as a cb 

[Ambitious]

If you don't like Keogh that's fine, but the argument comes apart when you try and imply that Keogh is wasteful with the ball. 

The ball retention side of his game is one of the best in the league, similarly with Buxton. 

In comparison with Albentosa and Shotton:

Albentosa - loses possession 12.25 times a game, with an average of 55.5 touches a match. 
Keogh - loses possession 8.49 times a game, with an average of 64.91 touches a match.
Shotton - loses possession 12.44 times a games, with an average of 64 touches a match.
Buxton - loses possession 6.84 times a game, with an average of 54.84 touches a match.

The amount of touches each CB is huge in comparison to the rest of the division - most range between 35-45. 

[Ambitious]

Here's a good one for you: 

Out of the WHOLE division, including goalkeepers, midfielders...etc, the top 10 players with the highest touches to possession loss (with more than 1000 minutes of game time)...

1) Jake Buxton - 8.02
2) Kelvin Wilson - 7.82
3) Richard Keogh - 7.65
4) Lewis Dunk - 7.35
5) Jonathan Hogg - 7.13
6) Tony Craig - 7.01
7) Andrew Surman - 6.95
8) John Eustace - 6.92
9) Joel Ekstrand - 6.76
10) Alexander Tetty - 6.66 

The Bux reigns supreme! 

[Milbs]

Build that man Bucko a statue.

[Gypsy Ram]

This is why a Bucko/Keogh partnership is as good as any in the Championship.

Those two really accommodate each other well.

[RamLad1884]

I wish we'd stop slating individuals. The problems stem from inconsistency, it was the same under clough, it the back four stays the same for at least 10 matches they will do well 

[Guest]

So much rubbish. Stats-wise his passing is fine. He loses the ball way less than our full backs. 

stop being so factual...."fans" see and remember what they want to remember. Sad, but true. 

[eddie]

Keogh............where to start!

Sat in the south right behind him is enough to trigger a heart attack a dozen times a game. We all see the pass that he never does, he runs up the pitch then waits for 2 players to charge him down then tries to pass between them and gets dispossessed. Which results in a gap behind him as he stands there looking all annoyed and pointing at others! I'm not saying he's a bad player all the time but his decisions are either late or wrong, his passes are rarely on target & why does he pass like he's in a Harry Enfield sketch show???

As for the armband I'd give it Bucko the football genius 

Apart from the last line, that is demonstrable rubbish.

For a start, you should not be sat in the south stand.