The "Incredible Backing" myth

[Mostyn6]

​Just stop. Don't be stupid.

​what?

Jordan Rhodes cost £8m a few years ago.

Forest spent about £12m on a couple of players?

Fulham spent £11m on McCormack.

Leicester spent £5.5m on Mills when Sven was in charge 6 years ago!

Billy spent £7m in 2006 summer, then another £7m in January 2007!

 

What is so stupid?

Arthur Cox spent £13m in 1992 ffs!!

[davenportram]

​Did I? Or did I say "Bournemouth were willing to pay £5m for Gray from Birmingham, which would probably have exceeded our whole transfer spend under McClaren."

 

You're not an idiot, you can clearly see the word "probably" there, and it's clear from the tone of my whole post that I'm clearly speculating. 

​You were using that sentence to justify Mclaren not having actually been given a significant backing. In the context of your post being that their was no significant backing given to the manager. The word probably from the oxford dictionary means

probably adverb
used to say that something is likely to happen or to be true

So you are saying it is likely to be true that our total transfer spending under Mac is less than £5m  - when in actual fact we spent more than that in just the last summer.

Once again when faced with facts that counter your argument you try to talk your way out being wrong.

[Mostyn6]

​

​Highlighted bits I didn't agree with.

I agree with you on a whole here, but what I'm trying to say is that we don't really know any of the proper details at all and aren't in a great position to comment.

No way you have any idea what Leon Best or Ince were on.

​okay, I'll take that one on the chin, of course, you are right. But my point stands. They've all (aside of Ibe and Mascarell) been at other clubs in this league, who finished below us, and we would hardly be saying "oh my god, Bent is at Brighton, why haven't we got that kind of ambition to sign such an awesome player?"

In fact, I'd argue that the same people who think we've invested massively in all these brilliant players are the same ones who didn't want Ince, Bent etc here.

[davenportram]

​what the hell are you babbling on about?!?! You have not shown me any more facts that the amount of "facts" I have posted myself. it's all speculation. I ignore nothing I see with my own eyes. Which FACTS are you referring to? If you got Ramblur here now, and he's has honest as they come, he quite clearly puts in his posts that he does a lot of educated guesswork cos simply the information, ie. The FACTS are not readily available!

​It is fact that purchases of new registrations is given on the PBSE as £6.77m - or are you saying that figure is not correct and the club put an incorrect figure on an offical document?

[Mostyn6]

​It is fact that purchases of new registrations is given on the PBSE as £6.77m - or are you saying that figure is not correct and the club put an incorrect figure on an offical document?

​okay, so as I said, I was £1.7m out on my "probably" comment, whoopdedooo, my comment stands. The investment has not been what people make out it has.

[Mostyn6]

 

​You were using that sentence to justify Mclaren not having actually been given a significant backing. In the context of your post being that their was no significant backing given to the manager. The word probably from the oxford dictionary means

 

So you are saying it is likely to be true that our total transfer spending under Mac is less than £5m  - when in actual fact we spent more than that in just the last summer.

Once again when faced with facts that counter your argument you try to talk your way out being wrong.

​stop twisting my words. I've never once said anything about significant backing. Show me a quote where I have said he hasn't had significant backing!

[Tombo]

​what?

Jordan Rhodes cost £8m a few years ago.

Forest spent about £12m on a couple of players?

Fulham spent £11m on McCormack.

Leicester spent £5.5m on Mills when Sven was in charge 6 years ago!

Billy spent £7m in 2006 summer, then another £7m in January 2007!

 

What is so stupid?

Arthur Cox spent £13m in 1992 ffs!!

​And all of those managers got the sack when they failed, having spent a lot of money. And none of those are the norm either. You've picked out astronomical examples. We've spent more than most clubs do.

It might be smaller than Jupiter, but Neptune is pretty big, you know?

[G STAR RAM]

​what the hell are you babbling on about?!?! You have not shown me any more facts that the amount of "facts" I have posted myself. it's all speculation. I ignore nothing I see with my own eyes. Which FACTS are you referring to? If you got Ramblur here now, and he's has honest as they come, he quite clearly puts in his posts that he does a lot of educated guesswork cos simply the information, ie. The FACTS are not readily available!

You seem to be suggesting that the accounts published on Companies House do not become FACT until you have looked at them?

[davenportram]

​stop twisting my words. I've never once said anything about significant backing. Show me a quote where I have said he hasn't had significant backing!

​sorry your actual words are "incredible Backing" -

[North_Stand_Ram]

McClaren wouldn't have committed if he wasn't promised funds! 

[Uptherams]

I've read in about 50 threads over the last few weeks that McClaren should've done better after the "incredible backing" he's apparently had, and the "amazing squad" which should've won the league.

This whole theory is wrong, so absolutely wrong. Whilst the quality of loans has improved under McClaren, I doubt very much the increase in investment has been that spectacular.

Permanent signings for the first team:-

Shotton - fringe player, bargain. Hardly someone you'd be jealous about if Forest signed him

Christie - young lad from the division below, again, hardly a ground breaking signing.

Thorne - fringe player, undoubted quality and hopefully will prove to be a good signing if he stays uninjured. Good backing. but as a signing, about on part with previous summer signings Keogh, Sammon, Shackell etc in terms of finance.

Warnock - free transfer, to shore up the squad, perhaps not used enough, but hardly a wallet-busting transfer.

Albentosa - pretty cheap. Bought in January with next season in mind.

 

Loan signings.

Mascarell - young kid. Hardly a financial burden

Ibe - young kid on youth contract. Cheap as chips on youth wage.

Ince - Already been on loan in this division, at a club that finished below Derby. Maybe a decent wage, maybe less than people think though.

Best - cover and small wage. Hardly incredible backing by sanctioning this.

Bent - Already been at Brighton on loan, don't believe this loan was as expensive as people make out. Aston Villa had to get some of his wage off the bill. No way Derby are paying anything more than £20k of it (so I hear), but on balance, decent backing, but nothing groundbreaking for this division.

===========================================================

As I say, there's nothing in that list that anyone can say is incredible in terms of financial backing. If anything, this highlights the fact we are still shopping in the bargain basement. Bournemouth were willing to pay £5m for Gray from Birmingham, which would probably have exceeded our whole transfer spend under McClaren.

I think the club tried to be cute in the transfer market and it backfired. McClaren COULD have had a great bargaining tool with the owners if the fans had reacted so hysterically to the Newcastle ******, but now he hasn't got that. I had hoped this coming summer be the one where they say "right, we need to spend £8m on the spine of the team".

It's inaccurate that we've spent massively and have the best squad.

​Our outlay on transfers/retention last summer alone was £6m+. We then went on to sign even more big players on loan and permanently in January. We retained players who were at the time key. This idea that we haven't received backing this season is absolutely barmy. People seem to forget the countless talented players we signed for the development squad. 

[Tombo]

​sorry your actual words are "incredible Backing" -

​Wrong superlative Dav, rookie error 

[Mostyn6]

You seem to be suggesting that the accounts published on Companies House do not become FACT until you have looked at them?

​not at all, where have I suggested that? I was talking about YOUR comment, there was nothing factual that I could see that highlighted I was wrong. That's not to say I wasn't speculating wrong, and yes, I was £1.7m wrong. I'm sorry, shoot me.

My point is either going over your head, or your argument is so weak that you're arguing the irrelevant bits! It's not whether the investment was £5m or £6.7m, it's the fact that it's NOT "incredible" backing, and it isn't the type of backing that you're be expecting some sort of table-topping team as a result of.

Do you think that this team has been "incredibly backed"? 

[Mostyn6]

​And all of those managers got the sack when they failed, having spent a lot of money. And none of those are the norm either. You've picked out astronomical examples. We've spent more than most clubs do.

It might be smaller than Jupiter, but Neptune is pretty big, you know?

​I'm not on about the manager, I'm on about what level of backing/investment do you consider "incredible"? 

Why not just answer instead of hiding behind silly pot shots.

[davenportram]

​okay, so as I said, I was £1.7m out on my "probably" comment, whoopdedooo, my comment stands. The investment has not been what people make out it has.

​Slightly more than £1.7 million out im afraid.

 

Your £5m in Macs entitre tenure includes January 2014, summer 2014 and January 2015. the £6.7m just on permanents and doesnt include loans either.

 

 

 

 

[Mostyn6]

​Our outlay on transfers/retention last summer alone was £6m+. We then went on to sign even more big players on loan and permanently in January. We retained players who were at the time key. This idea that we haven't received backing this season is absolutely barmy. People seem to forget the countless talented players we signed for the development squad. 

​Whoaaaa there. I never said anything about him not receiving backing. You need to pay attention to what I actually write before arguing with me. The key thing I am saying is that the backing was not INCREDIBLE. 

[ronnieronalde]

​I'm not on about the manager, I'm on about what level of backing/investment do you consider "incredible"? 

Why not just answer instead of hiding behind silly pot shots.

​Would you consider admitting that in the context of Derby County he has been incredibly well backed?

I mean based on the last 3,4,5 or even 6 years with this group in charge. Would you consider that spending 6.77m on players in one window and increasing the wage bill by 4m, or around 30% (probably higher next year) is incredible backing?

Try not to have silly pot shots or call me/others idiots for not understanding your point.

[Mostyn6]

​Slightly more than £1.7 million out im afraid.

 

Your £5m in Macs entitre tenure includes January 2014, summer 2014 and January 2015. the £6.7m just on permanents and doesnt include loans either.

 

 

 

 

​GREAT.

 

perhaps you should learn to read. I did say probably (not definitely) and I did say transfer fees (not loan fees).

 

Anyway, answer my question? Is the backing "incredible", in fact, why not check your oxford dictionary for the definition.

[eddie]

I agree with the idea that the amount McClaren's been backed is over-exaggerated, but really most of this post is hearsay.

For that reason, I'm not going to give you a like.

​Have you given a single #ITKer a like?

After all, all of their utterances have demonstrably been at best hearsay and at worst somewhere between normal bullshit and valleyram bullshit.

[Mostyn6]

​Would you consider admitting that in the context of Derby County he has been incredibly well backed?

I mean based on the last 3,4,5 or even 6 years with this group in charge. Would you consider that spending 6.77m on players in one window and increasing the wage bill by 4m, or around 30% (probably higher next year) is incredible backing?

Try not to have silly pot shots or call me/others idiots for not understanding your point.

​no, I don't. If people are willing to suggest that the previous years have involved poor backing, then those people can be honest enough to suggest the we have only jumped to average backing. 

I bet a lot of teams in this league have spent more.

I stand by the fact that (aside of Albentosa) we didn't sign a single player that the selling club wanted to keep, we have been cute and tried to get by with buying fringe/reserve players, and similarly, loaning players that aren't near the team either.

Incredible backing would've meant buying players that made us ALL say "wow".