StringerBell Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 care homes aren't what she's talking about. She's talking about dementia patients in hospitals being treated - these patients may have dementia but often they are being treated for other illnesses and conditions. In what way are they blocking bedsRead what Ambitious quoted. I'm guessing he's quoted her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 So my mother who has worked from the age 16 to 60 and paid tax and national insurance, and is still paying tax on her pension is not allowed to have a hospital bed if she needs it because she has dementia?Lets get a few things straight here.Biggest cost to the NHS. Fat, Health Tourists, wannabe sports people, crap parents.So therefore if you have a terminal illness you don't need to bother turning up to a hospital either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 Read what Ambitious quoted. I'm guessing he's quoted herwas that the mumbled justification of her original twitter quote of "dementia patients shouldn't be blocking beds" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 care homes aren't what she's talking about. She's talking about dementia patients in hospitals being treated - these patients may have dementia but often they are being treated for other illnesses and conditions. In what way are they blocking bedsRead what Ambitious quoted. I'm guessing he's quoted her. She is talking about more aspects of dementia than that and you're fixating on the bed blockers comment. Who says Katy Hopkins gets to moderate our conversations anyway? If I think she should have gone further than that then how is that any less relevant to the topic of pointless celebrities than, say, the Asian culture of looking after their elderly? - a comment you haven't picked up on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 was that the mumbled justification of her original twitter quote of "dementia patients shouldn't be blocking beds" Posting on this forum is such a headache it says my original post wasn't there and then it miraculously appears.Anyway, yeah that's the one. Whether you think she mumbled or not she's clearly said more on the issue than 'dementia patients block beds' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 So my mother who has worked from the age 16 to 60 and paid tax and national insurance, and is still paying tax on her pension is not allowed to have a hospital bed if she needs it because she has dementia?Lets get a few things straight here.Biggest cost to the NHS. Fat, Health Tourists, wannabe sports people, crap parents.So therefore if you have a terminal illness you don't need to bother turning up to a hospital either?Regardless of the illness/disorder I think the smearing of faeces over yourself, your surroundings and the person who is trying to help you should be the barometer personally.Why would anyone want to live like that?Why would anyone want somebody they loved to live like that?Why do we think it's ethical to expect perfect strangers to deal with that for pittance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 Regardless of the illness/disorder I think the smearing of faeces over yourself, your surroundings and the person who is trying to help you should be the barometer personally.Why would anyone want to live like that?Why would anyone want somebody they loved to live like that?Why do we think it's ethical to expect perfect strangers to deal with that for pittance? Sow what about the cancer patients who cant control their movements, need to be bathed and cleaned up by strangers. Are they blocking beds too?What about MS sufferers in their final stages?Motor Neurone disease sufferers?Yes people can have family look after them - but not all families are in a position to.Youcant label one disease as bed blockers when other diseases conditions have similar end stages which is what Hopkins did. You aparrently appear quite happy to label anybody who needs care that cannot always be provide by family worthless and undeserving of being looked after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 Anyway, yeah that's the one. Whether you think she mumbled or not she's clearly said more on the issue than 'dementia patients block beds' Your right on twitter she started with "Dementia sufferers should not be blocking beds"."What is the point of life when you no longer know you are living it? Bang me over the head. The day I am diagnosed with dementia is the day I book my ticket to Dignitas."Ultimately, if your family member is in hospital with dementia because you are not caring for them - you have no right to be outraged."Basically telling people with dementia there is no point to their life. Classy. And then tells people that have family members in hospital with dementia theycant be outraged by her comments. She completely disregards the fact that dementia sufferers generally are not in hospital because their family are not looking ater them, or in fact for treatment directly for the symptoms of dementia. They get secondary ilnesses, compications etc that REQUIRE MEDICAL TREATMENT in hospital - the same as non dementia sufferers would. What gives anybody the right to say that Dementia sufferers are worth less than non-dementis sufferers? This point is irrespective of your views on care home provision - which in the minority of cases could be vastlyy improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Sow what about the cancer patients who cant control their movements, need to be bathed and cleaned up by strangers. Are they blocking beds too?What about MS sufferers in their final stages?Motor Neurone disease sufferers?Yes people can have family look after them - but not all families are in a position to.Youcant label one disease as bed blockers when other diseases conditions have similar end stagesWhen I worked with incontinent people I had no problem with cleaning it up just as long as they didn't put their hands in it and then put their hands in my face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 When I worked with incontinent people I had no problem with cleaning it up just as long as they didn't put their hands in it and then put their hands in my faceThe maybe you werent vocatioanlly suited to working in a care home, looking after people that had limited understanding of what they are doing. Not to mention the fact that in care homes they are paying you to provide that care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 The maybe you werent vocatioanlly suited to working in a care home, looking after people that had limited understanding of what they are doing. Not to mention the fact that in care homes they are paying you to provide that care. I wasn't suited? I have an opinion on our treatment of a particular illness that reflects other cultures. But I'm pleased to know that nobody has a "right" to be openly critical of our culture and that it has been decided that, from now until the end of time, our approach to dementia requires no further discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 I wasn't suited? I have an opinion on our treatment of a particular illness that reflects other cultures. But I'm pleased to know that nobody has a "right" to be openly critical of our culture and that it has been decided that, from now until the end of time, our approach to dementia requires no further discussion. Its not the approach to dementia - its the belief that they shouldn't be in hospital beds receiving treatment without even considering what they are actually receiving treatment for. It is generally not or demntia it is for the other complications they have such as pneumonia which if that was being treated in hospital or a non demential suffferer wouldnt lead to the bed blocker label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 I wasn't suited? I have an opinion on our treatment of a particular illness that reflects other cultures. But I'm pleased to know that nobody has a "right" to be openly critical of our culture and that it has been decided that, from now until the end of time, our approach to dementia requires no further discussion. That was in reply tou your comment about not minding cleaning up people unless they did something you didnt like. Not about our opinion of treatment for a certain condition. I disagree with your opinion because I believe that no matter what a person is suffering from they have a right to the care they need. If that cant be provided by their family then there has to be care provided by the state. Its part of our culture - and a move away from that will make us less civilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Its not the approach to dementia - its the belief that they shouldn't be in hospital beds receiving treatment without even considering what they are actually receiving treatment for. It is generally not or demntia it is for the other complications they have such as pneumonia which if that was being treated in hospital or a non demential suffferer wouldnt lead to the bed blocker label. According to the quote Ambitious put up she said she'd rather be euthanised if she was in such a condition. I personally think the discussion about dementia and our response to it is more interesting than what Hopkins said or didn't say though.If we have to frame this thread about only want she said then fine but To be clear - as much as you want to focus on the bed blockers comment she is also talking about a culture of euthanasia. So am I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 According to the quote Ambitious put up she said she'd rather be euthanised if she was in such a condition. I personally think the discussion about dementia and our response to it is more interesting than what Hopkins said or didn't say though.If we have to frame this thread about only want she said then fine but To be clear - as much as you want to focus on the bed blockers comment she is also talking about a culture of euthanasia. So am I The problem is, she didn't say that originally, and has had to have her PR help her get out of the mess she put herself in by releasing more about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 That was in reply tou your comment about not minding cleaning up people unless they did something you didnt like. Not about our opinion of treatment for a certain condition. I disagree with your opinion because I believe that no matter what a person is suffering from they have a right to the care they need. If that cant be provided by their family then there has to be care provided by the state. Its part of our culture - and a move away from that will make us less civilized."Something I didn't like" - smearing faeces in my hair. There are lots of things I don't like, such as spring onions, but that particular thing goes beyond not liking it. I neither want to have faeces smeared in my hair, have my mother smear her faeces in someone's hair, nor do I want to smear faeces in someone else's hair. A system that values life to the point that this frequently occurs is a flawed system in my opinion. And like Hopkins, if I am ever in such a state I would hope society has changed so that I may be euthanised. And I can't abide the hypocrisy of holding this up as a moral standard. Paying low wages to immigrants and people who didn't do too well at school to put up with that! Because someone in their ivory tower has told them they must as part of their job. How many of those people would do that if the system didn't manipulate them into doing it? There's not been a load of jobs around in recent times but you can always get a job in a nursing home. And just because someone works in a nursing home and is quite happy to help people with their problems so long as those people don't smear faeces over them then they should be told they are in the wrong job? They're doing more for people who need help than most people do and that should be appreciated. This might be your idea of civilisation and unlike you I believe you have a right to hold that view. But it's not mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 The problem is, she didn't say that originally, and has had to have her PR help her get out of the mess she put herself in by releasing more about it.I gathered that but I have no problem with her following up and elucidating.Thats the problem with sound bite culture but if she's the one who put out the original message she's only got herself to blame if she got flack for it. She probably loves it though and that's up to her if she does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 gok wan, the fecker gave me food poisoningJordon, or Katie price, famous for popping one outPeter Andre, for being famous for being a partner of someone that pops one outGary Lineker, famous for being a tit, no but being so boring and keep mentioning your from Leicester, no you have lived in Hertfordshire as soon as you could get out of this pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 yes some of the care homes are not very good, my mum was in a locked room covered in ants when I visited, she was highly stressed and social services were not bothered one bit, we have lost the ability to care for our elders as stated above, I remember when she passed the carers were more bothered about buying her tv/dvd combo we bought her.Dear me , that is terrible mate. Very very sorry to read that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Hasn't someone topped the cow (Katy Hopkins) yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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