Nuwtfly Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 First of all, after reading plenty of threads discussing our defensive vulnerabilities, I'd like to agree with all the Derby fans who are pointing their fingers towards Eustace. True, he does give each game 100%, and in plenty of games has made some great tackles and helped break up opposition play - however, Eustace is now 33. His legs are really going and he seems out of pace with the rest of team, especially when comparing him with our other central midfielders, Bryson and Hughes (who are PL quality players). I think when we signed Eustace, nobody expected him to be sat in our starting XI week in, week out. Not even Clough did, that's not what he signed him for, and the Birmingham game was really telling of this. BCFC are a poor team and if we are serious about promotion (or at least a top 6 finish) we need better quality than him in our (arguably) most important area on the pitch - considering the style of football we are playing. Secondly, I have absolutely loved the attitude of the Derby fans after yesterdays draw. Over the last few years we have always struggled against teams like Birmingham, and now we're not even satisfied with putting 3 goals past them after dominating the majority of the game. This is fantastic. Mac has instilled in us, through the football we've been playing under him, a real sense of expectation and belief in the ability of our own team. Other fans of other teams who I have spoke to don't see us as some mid-table championship team any-more (which they did under Clough) and now expect us to be automatic-promotion contenders. How far we've come in such a short space of time. With this kind of belief in our players, and this coaching set-up, we will go far. Be it this season, or next season. But let's be realistic shall we? Who, at the beginning of this season, were honestly expecting us to get promoted??? If someone had told me we would be pushing from the play-off's i'd of been happy!! But look at us now. We're one of THE BEST TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE and are sitting comfortably in the play-offs (be it in front or behind Forest) and we should all feel fantastic about this. We're not ready for promotion yet though, not in my opinion. We're good, but not good enough. We're no Leicester and we're no QPR, as we don't have a squad quite as good as theirs just yet. Especially in the defensive areas. If we go out in the play-offs this year, sign some quality players in the summer (specifically Defenders and a Goalkeeper) and keep hold of players like Bryson and Hughes, we will get promoted next year hands down. No doubt. In fact i'll be putting money on it. So chin up! The future's bright, the future's black and white... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 First of all, after reading plenty of threads discussing our defensive vulnerabilities, I'd like to agree with all the Derby fans who are pointing their fingers towards Eustace. True, he does give each game 100%, and in plenty of games has made some great tackles and helped break up opposition play - however, Eustace is now 33. His legs are really going and he seems out of pace with the rest of team, especially when comparing him with our other central midfielders, Bryson and Hughes (who are PL quality players). I think when we signed Eustace, nobody expected him to be sat in our starting XI week in, week out. Not even Clough did, that's not what he signed him for, and the Birmingham game was really telling of this. BCFC are a poor team and if we are serious about promotion (or at least a top 6 finish) we need better quality than him in our (arguably) most important area on the pitch - considering the style of football we are playing. Secondly, I have absolutely loved the attitude of the Derby fans after yesterdays draw. Over the last few years we have always struggled against teams like Birmingham, and now we're not even satisfied with putting 3 goals past them after dominating the majority of the game. This is fantastic. Mac has instilled in us, through the football we've been playing under him, a real sense of expectation and belief in the ability of our own team. Other fans of other teams who I have spoke to don't see us as some mid-table championship team any-more (which they did under Clough) and now expect us to be automatic-promotion contenders. How far we've come in such a short space of time. With this kind of belief in our players, and this coaching set-up, we will go far. Be it this season, or next season. But let's be realistic shall we? Who, at the beginning of this season, were honestly expecting us to get promoted??? If someone had told me we would be pushing from the play-off's i'd of been happy!! But look at us now. We're one of THE BEST TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE and are sitting comfortably in the play-offs (be it in front or behind Forest) and we should all feel fantastic about this. We're not ready for promotion yet though, not in my opinion. We're good, but not good enough. We're no Leicester and we're no QPR, as we don't have a squad quite as good as theirs just yet. Especially in the defensive areas. If we go out in the play-offs this year, sign some quality players in the summer (specifically Defenders and a Goalkeeper) and keep hold of players like Bryson and Hughes, we will get promoted next year hands down. No doubt. In fact i'll be putting money on it. So chin up! The future's bright, the future's black and white... A reasonable and well thought out post. Who would of thought it on here. Agree with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Good post fella. Agree with quite a lot of it. I do like Eustace. When his legs are taking him where he needs to be he deals with things well. He's composed, tough, wins headers (or does enough to ensure the opponent can't head cleanly) and he's clever enough to know how to break things up. I do think his legs are letting him down though on occasion. He can be bypassed more easily as the games tick on. Anyone else find it sad watching a players legs go before his heart? Like watching Xavi in some of the biggest games last season. His legs not gone but he was a touch behind the play more than he has ever been before. Like Giggs and Scholes, can never say they aren't/weren't classy still. Just not quite as in the action as you've come to expect. I think you visibly see Eustace drop behind the play during a game. The more intense game then the quicker he drops. I would like promotion ASAP though. Nothing to gain down here. You lose money and the longer you're here then the less powerful you become. Plus the bottom half of the PL looks weak enough for us to have a shot at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Still blaming individuals when the cause is usually a collective failure or series of errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Still blaming individuals when the cause is usually a collective failure or series of errors. Think the OP had a point and backed up there theory. I don't think any of us would of thought Eustace would be starting every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Still blaming individuals when the cause is usually a collective failure or series of errors. Oh I agree. I'm not blaming Eustace for anything. Just can see he's getting on. I'm happy to see McClaren send the exact same bunch out for every remaining game. They've all earned it. Can't deny Eustace starts a certain way and doesn't reach that level again during the game? He tires. That's all I'm saying. Still like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Brightside Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Everybody has their own opinion on who to blame. We have one of the worst defences in league but most of the goals seem to have come from set pieces and the defence playing to deep. I struggle to see how this is all down to Eustace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I didn't really think we needed a pick me up post/thread like this but oh well the post made sense. Passion is now running high which is awesome to see. We will make the playoffs easily this season, if we want to make the top 2 then maybe Eustace does need replacing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky1884 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Eustance for thorne. Yes top six is great wed be happy. Would be upset if we didnt get playoffs. top two would be amazing and i havent ruled it out steve is a master of the modern game!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I think we all like Eustace and I don't think anyone is blaming him specifically for any of the goals recently shipped, but I do think he's being asked to do a lot more than even he ever signed up for. He was signed at the start of the season to come on for the last 20 mins and help us hold on to leads, something we had a problem with last season. (And trying to hold onto a result, very much a Clough tactic, so an important part if the Clough game plan). I think Thorne is a great signing and exactly what we need. Now we have the option of either going back to that original plan, putting Eustace on for the last 20 mins when we need experience and a calm head. Or the other way around, having that experience from the start, but getting the youth on at the end when Eustace tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Mind you, just got thinking about Clough's original game plan. I don't think it was his intention to play with a holding midfielder, but to change the formation towards the end of the game to put Eustace on. What do you think would happen if we, for example, played Hendrick instead if Eustace and let all the midfielders attack. I know Hendrick has played for Eustace before, but he was asked to play Eustace's role, which is not what he's good at. Once we've shock and awed the opposition with relentless attack, we can bring Eustace or Thorne on to shut up shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Fran Van Rams Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 In my opinion, I don't think the blame can solely be put on Eustace. If you look at our starting 11: we have 3 forwards (ST, RW, LW) and we really play with two CAMs in Bryson and Hughes. Then, Forsyth and Wisdom are quite attacking full backs and that leaves just the two CBs and Eustace who are there to hold the fort. Eustace does what he's supposed to do, which is to break up the play so that Hughes and Bryson can take it forward. However, with breaking up the play comes yellow cards (of which Eustace has 9). This means that he can't break the play up as much as he would like to later on in the game due to the chance of him being sent off. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the attacking intent we show and the fact McClaren always brings on an attacking substitute. But, in games like on Saturday, when we have a two goal cushion with only 10 minutes to play, why take two attackers off and replace them with 2 more attackers? I found it quite hypocritical when McClaren came out after the game and blamed the players for going for 4/5 when he was the one who bought the extra attackers on... It would have been much more sensible to bring Thorne on for the like of Hughes and play with 2 holding players, one of whom can take a chance with a tackle and break up play. At the end of the day, its almost a losing battle for the management. We now expect the team to go forward and attack, attack, attack, but when we do concede we blame our fragile defence and holding midfield player for being 'leggy'. For me, we have just gone to Birmingham away, a hostile place to go at the best of times, scored 3 goals (and could have scored a lot more) and disappointingly drew the game in the last minute. As the first post pointed out, this is a huge step up from the beginning of the season when we were amazed at beating Brighton 2-1 at the Amex. I'm looking forward to seeing how we do against QPR. We're playing good attacking football at the moment and creating loads of chance. I just hope we don't do the opposite against QPR and give them too much respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Quite honestly I know nothing about George Thorne. I have a feeling though that if he proves to be as good as some have said he could be our signing of the season. I expect him to start against QPR but we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Why is George Thorne definitely going to be the saviour. Isn't he still coming back from ligament damage. Do we even know if he is quicker and fitter than Eustace? Let's not pin everything on him to be the new Eustace when we haven't seen him play. I agree sometimes when we attack everyone goes forward except Bucko Keogh and Eustace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB BIGGS Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 But let's be realistic shall we? Who, at the beginning of this season, were honestly expecting us to get promoted??? If someone had told me we would be pushing from the play-off's i'd of been happy!! But look at us now. We're one of THE BEST TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE and are sitting comfortably in the play-offs (be it in front or behind Forest) and we should all feel fantastic about this. We're not ready for promotion yet though, not in my opinion. We're good, but not good enough. We're no Leicester and we're no QPR, as we don't have a squad quite as good as theirs just yet. Especially in the defensive areas. I wasn't expecting us to be promoted and I'm still not - for the very reasons you mention. Hope we're both wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Why is George Thorne definitely going to be the saviour. Isn't he still coming back from ligament damage. Do we even know if he is quicker and fitter than Eustace? Let's not pin everything on him to be the new Eustace when we haven't seen him play. I agree sometimes when we attack everyone goes forward except Bucko Keogh and Eustace. Your word not mine. (in bold). As a much younger man who has just signed a new 3 year deal with West Brom (who rate him highly) I will assume he is more mobile than John Eustace (of whom I am a fan by the way). As said IF he proves to be as good as Eustace but much quicker & mobile he could prove to be a very important signing. PS Is Eustace suspended now after his latest booking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewetube Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I do not wish to blame Eustace, I really like him and think he brings a lot to our squad in terms of experience and attitude. I think the blame for our defensive failings must be shouldered by the team as a whole. When we are 3-1 up away from home we do not need to go for all-out attack, neither do we need to get everyone behind the ball. We need to do the simple things well, keep possession and frustrate the opposition. I never expected us to be in this position at the start of the season but now we are my expectations have been raised. I think you have to take full advantage of any opportunities as they arise so we should address our failings on the training ground and go for automatic promotion. It doesn't necessarily follow that if you miss out this season you'll be better placed for promotion next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Your word not mine. (in bold). As a much younger man who has just signed a new 3 year deal with West Brom (who rate him highly) I will assume he is more mobile than John Eustace (of whom I am a fan by the way). As said IF he proves to be as good as Eustace but much quicker & mobile he could prove to be a very important signing. PS Is Eustace suspended now after his latest booking? Fair play I agree with you Thorne could be the answer but only time will tell. Eustace has 9 bookings for the season so one more and a ban, and he will likely get one vs QPR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEBA Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I'd still start with Eustace, his experience and leadership qualities on the pitch are vital to us, but we now have the option to bring on Thorne after the hour mark for some fresh legs, if I were to make a change to the current 11 I would be more inclined to swap Russell for Bamford, he sounded razor sharp against Brum and will offer much more defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Getting very difficult to pick our side. ................................................Grant............................................. Wisdom.................Keogh......................Buxton....................Forsyth .......................................Thorne/Eustace............................................ ........................Bryson......................................Hughes................. Russell (Bamford).................................Martin......................................Dawkins (Ward) Subs: Legs - Whitbread - Bamford - Hendrick/Thorne/Eustace - Sammon - Dawkins/Ward - Russell/Bamford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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