cheron85 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 And how exactly would we know that? His point was that how would you know at the football either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 And how exactly would we know that? Come on...it's banter!! Everyone loves a bit of banter apparently. Land mines ROFL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Wonder if there would of been the same comments flying about for and against this "banter" a couple of years ago when the lad who committed suicide because he was gay and got bullied for it, and the despicable people taking videos and asking him to jump? Personally I don't get involved in them kind of chants at away games, but lets put it into perspective, there's always be horrible things said at football games, heat of the moment. And whilst I personally disagree with it, and will fully admit sang and got carried away with it, it will always happen. And that's the sad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Exactly, you wouldn't. Check mate. But if you wouldn't know banter at the football and someone does something illegal than you have to arrest them... even if it's 'banter'... If someone stabbed you and then yelled "hahaha banter" you'd be fine with that? No arrest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Can we ban chants aimed at Cardiff and Wales about sheep shagging? It's a disgusting stereotype Can we ban "you fat bastwerd". People are sensitive about their weight. Homophobic toddlers!! Jesus. Football years ago was for the working man. Then came along a Tristian and his kids and decided to join in. Now the game is altered to suit them. To pander to the wider audience. You'll all be sat in silent grounds eating popcorn soon. When I first started going to football at the BBG not even 20 years ago I was told not to repeat the language I heard. That its not about fighting its about winding the oppo fans up. After the game you go home and behave. Football was a release. People would behave differently. I'm not saying homophobia at football is ok. I'm saying people aren't homophobic who are singing these songs. It's a wind up. It's banter. Everything offends someone nowadays. What's wrong with people? Honestly, who was offended by the Mick Philpott chant by Leicester? Honestly? Was you offended? Not asking if you thing it was nice (I don't think they wanted us to enjoy it) I'm asking if it offended you. If you was outraged. Like GreenRam you said "I hope all if them die in a car crash" to see if that's offensive right? If you was saying that to me, which you aren't, why would I be offended? It says more about you than it does me. Either you're sick or you have a sense of humour that doesn't suit mine. Like when people are offended by something on EastEnders? Get a grip. Turn over you ******* idiots. Are you for real? Change channel ffs! The number of people who want to "do the right thing" make me laugh. It links in to that homeless thread by Cisse. You're all so perfect. So God fearing and law abiding making decisions about what's moral and what's immoral. Who lives like that though? Like this cnut criticising Derby for their deal with Electric Cigarettes. Find something to do. Who smokes thinking that its healthy? Stop trying to think for other people. Give your £5 to Children in Need and fook off. "It sends a bad signal" What? Stfu! People can think for themselves. Treated like idiots in this country. Stick battery up my arse and I can be a step closer to living like a robot. Sorry to any robots I offended Best post ever. This sums up everything that I think but is put so more eloquently! I owe you one pint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Can we ban chants aimed at Cardiff and Wales about sheep shagging? It's a disgusting stereotype Can we ban "you fat bastwerd". People are sensitive about their weight. Homophobic toddlers!! Jesus. Football years ago was for the working man. Then came along a Tristian and his kids and decided to join in. Now the game is altered to suit them. To pander to the wider audience. You'll all be sat in silent grounds eating popcorn soon. When I first started going to football at the BBG not even 20 years ago I was told not to repeat the language I heard. That its not about fighting its about winding the oppo fans up. After the game you go home and behave. Football was a release. People would behave differently. I'm not saying homophobia at football is ok. I'm saying people aren't homophobic who are singing these songs. It's a wind up. It's banter. Everything offends someone nowadays. What's wrong with people? Honestly, who was offended by the Mick Philpott chant by Leicester? Honestly? Was you offended? Not asking if you thing it was nice (I don't think they wanted us to enjoy it) I'm asking if it offended you. If you was outraged. Like GreenRam you said "I hope all if them die in a car crash" to see if that's offensive right? If you was saying that to me, which you aren't, why would I be offended? It says more about you than it does me. Either you're sick or you have a sense of humour that doesn't suit mine. Like when people are offended by something on EastEnders? Get a grip. Turn over you ******* idiots. Are you for real? Change channel ffs! The number of people who want to "do the right thing" make me laugh. It links in to that homeless thread by Cisse. You're all so perfect. So God fearing and law abiding making decisions about what's moral and what's immoral. Who lives like that though? Like this cnut criticising Derby for their deal with Electric Cigarettes. Find something to do. Who smokes thinking that its healthy? Stop trying to think for other people. Give your £5 to Children in Need and fook off. "It sends a bad signal" What? Stfu! People can think for themselves. Treated like idiots in this country. Stick battery up my arse and I can be a step closer to living like a robot. Sorry to any robots I offended Best post ever. This sums up everything that I think but is put so more eloquently! I owe you one pint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Anyone who joins the forces is a complete brainless idiot who deserves to die You're saying this to prove a point. To wind people up Not because you mean it Welcome into the mind of a football fans trying to goad oppo fans. I wouldn't say those things myself. But you did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 3 year ban? Lucky c*nts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 But if you wouldn't know banter at the football and someone does something illegal than you have to arrest them... even if it's 'banter'... If someone stabbed you and then yelled "hahaha banter" you'd be fine with that? No arrest? What's homophobic chanting though? "We can see you holding hands" Is that homophobic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Just because you say banter doesn't make it banter. The act of stabbing someone has quite clearly proved that comment to be a lie. I'm surprised I've even got to explain that to you. So how is hate crime banter if it's at the football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 He needs a 3 year ban from this forum It goes against the way the forum is ran so yeah. But he's doing it to prove a point much in the same way Derby fans were goading Brighton fans. That's the mentality of the stands. To goad, intimidate and then I don't know about you but I could go and have a pint with the same people I was doing all that to. (Obviously I'm not calling for GreenRam to be banned!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 What's homophobic chanting though? "We can see you holding hands" Is that homophobic? Not is my book it isn't. What's more the chanting is directed at straight fans. 1) We don't know if that's what they were saying 2) "In your book" is not the basis of law I'm afraid 3) Why are you making that chant? What is the connotation you are leveling behind it? Are you saying "We can see you holding hands and that's really nice because it shows you're all good friends"? Or are you chanting it as "we can see you holding hands and the only people who hold hands at the football are gays and that's wrong so hahahaha"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaave Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 What's homophobic chanting though? "We can see you holding hands" Is that homophobic? I suppose that'd be up to a judge to decide. With regards to this case though, since we've no real idea of what the 2 fans actually sang/chanted I don't know how anybody can call the sentencing harsh or otherwise to be perfectly honest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 So how is hate crime banter if it's at the football? How is winding up your gay mate banter? Context is everything. I won't call anybody names until to Millwall game. Then I'll be moaning and cursing and singing abuse and goading. Common sense has to be applied to everything. Even the law. It's isn't but it should be. I'm obviously not saying you haven't got common sense. We're having a debate I hope? I'm not planning on trading insults because we disagree. Thousands of fans show anti-social behaviour at football. The mentality within football grounds is unique. I'm not saying that's how it should be. That's how it is. I don't know how it began. I've never known any different in any ground though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 The mentality within football grounds is unique. I'm not saying that's how it should be. That's how it is. I don't know how it began. I've never known any different in any ground though. THAT there is the very point though... If we can crack down on illegal behaviour in grounds then eventually, hopefully it will go away... If we don't crack down then it won't... And the fact that we can't police this kind of problem well enough means that when convictions are made we need harsh sentences to discourage anyone else from doing it... I don't believe that anyone on here is truely homophobic and I'd like to think that if you heard someone being so at the football you'd tell them to pipe down... But we need to be proactive about this in football rather than take a "well it happens, get over it" attitude... I like shouting at the opposition supporters as much as anyone else, but I can stick to generally just telling them to fornicate themselves or return to the bus upon which they came... and shouting scum at the leeds folk... Edit: Found the quote I was looking for... Edmund Burke... I thought it was Batman, but turns out not: All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 3. I didn't go to the Brighton game yet you're stating I made a chant. Why? I'm not saying YOU specifically were chanting... It's a form of rhetoric that takes out certain words to leave a similar meaning but directional... If you would rather I use the full language it would be: Why arwould one make that chant? What is the connotation one is leveling behind it? Is one saying "We can see you holding hands and that's really nice because it shows you're all good friends"? Or is one chanting it as "we can see you holding hands and the only people who hold hands at the football are gays and that's wrong so hahahaha"? It just sounds more pretentious using 'one' so I don't... I'm saying you seem to be supporting the actions of these people to be able to chant this particualr chant, so please explain to me how it is not homophobic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I've never said one word supporting the actions of these people. Not one word. Please feel free to scroll back and read. I've basically made two points. One being the punishment seems harsh, the other being: are the police going to be even handed over this and arrest anyone else who transgresses on this hate crime as you keep putting it? In the following post you stated that "We can see you holding hands" is NOT homophobic: Not is my book it isn't. What's more the chanting is directed at straight fans. So I'm asking you why you don't consider that to be homophobic... That was the question I asked you in my post... NOT "do you defend the actions of the guilty parties"... Just asked you to defend your own stated opinion that the above is not homophobic... BTW the fact that those chants are made at straight fans makes it MORE homophobic not less... The implication is still that for some reason the act of two men holding hands is wrong... If you didn't realise that was the implcation then fine... but that is why people chant it at Brighton fans... And I answered the 'harsh punishment' thing in the reply to Alpha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I get the feeling that Cheron and I are the only ones who have any kind of progressive thought on this issue. Several other posters are hell bent on justifying the position that when you're in a crowd at the football you can say or sing what you like. It's pretty clear that nothing we say or do can educate that out of them, so I give up - you all win. Bananas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Can't you see how wrong this sounds - read your last line again mate. If it sounds wrong, then it's you with the problem. You cannot take it in your own hands to be offended for someone else. If that other person is offended then you are within your rights to do whatever you can within the realms of the law to hand out justice, but do not assume that every gay person is offended by being called Gay. I know at least 20 gay people, and I would reckon 15 of them would have found the chanting at Brighton amusing and some have said to me today, to my surprise, that being included in the banter is a form of acceptance, if straight people are good enough to be on the receiving end (oo-er), then why exclude gays from banter! I remember that female lineswoman getting grief (go home and wash the pots etc), that's illegal too. I wonder how many people will agree to sexual discrimination. I would wager a couple of posters taking some moral high-ground here joined in! What about calling Dave Jones a pedofile? that's illegal. What about the Darren Moore song? (he's big, he's black) some would argue that's highlighting his colour without reason. I found the stuff tweeted to Tom Daley a lot more disgusting and disriminate and hate-filled than this nonsense, because by all accounts, crimes have a victim, and Tom Daley was a victim, but it's daft to say that Brighton and H FC are victims! It is a concern when some on here cannot see what is wrong with the behaviour of the two that have been banned for three years. What they did was rightly against the law, they were caught and dealt with correctly. I've seen people smuggling alcohol and drinking it in the stand, and I've seen people smoking in the toilets, both acts illegal, how would you deal with these people. What about people turning up drunk? they're breaking the law surely. Foul language? Illegal. Standing up during the match? Illegal. How would deal with all these criminals? Gay bashing is a hate crime... that's why they've been punished... Opinion is all very well... everyone can have them... but the act of expressing that opnion in a public arena is subject to the law... be as hateful as you like in private, just not in public... Or did you mean chanting how much I hate Leeds fans will become a hate crime? So, exactly who was the victim of this horrible crime? THAT there is the very point though... If we can crack down on illegal behaviour in grounds then eventually, hopefully it will go away... If we don't crack down then it won't... And the fact that we can't police this kind of problem well enough means that when convictions are made we need harsh sentences to discourage anyone else from doing it... I don't believe that anyone on here is truely homophobic and I'd like to think that if you heard someone being so at the football you'd tell them to pipe down... But we need to be proactive about this in football rather than take a "well it happens, get over it" attitude... I like shouting at the opposition supporters as much as anyone else, but I can stick to generally just telling them to fornicate themselves or return to the bus upon which they came... and shouting scum at the leeds folk... Edit: Found the quote I was looking for... Edmund Burke... I thought it was Batman, but turns out not: All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing as I say above:- Smoking in toilets alcohol in the stands swearing being drunk and disorderly in public obscene hand gestures libellous chanting standing up in the stand all against the law, would you ban everyone who did these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I get the feeling that Cheron and I are the only ones who have any kind of progressive thought on this issue. Several other posters are hell bent on justifying the position that when you're in a crowd at the football you can say or sing what you like. It's pretty clear that nothing we say or do can educate that out of them, so I give up - you all win. Bananas. I don't think that at all, I just want to know what the chant was so I can gauge how offensive it truly was. I was once in a beer-garden in Blackburn on the final away day of our Premier League season, a Blackburn fan was walking down with his two young daughters and was subjected to a load of sickening abuse about being a pedo and having sex with his own daughters from about 40 Derby 'lads'. It was disgusting. They deserve the ban. I was a few times at games involving Derby County and Nothingham Forest when many Derby 'fans' sang offensive songs to Lee Camp, suggesting that he's a 'daddy's boy', and asking "what's it like to shag your dad?", again, these fans are in the wrong. How would you deal with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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