cheron85 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Ooosssshhh you lot make it difficult... McGrath was a genuinely quality footballer... and when he came to Derby was still a very decent Premier League CB... Barker is not... These are things I accept... (although arguably Barker when he joined us was better than Ian Evatt who ended up playing in the Prem for Blackpool so there is an arugment to be made...) However the attributes that make Barker a decent (and better than our other options) CB should still be there despite his knee injury... That is the comparison to McGrath... He was another player who's lack of mobility didn't affect the rest of his game since he wasn't the most mobile defender before he arrived... Is Barker as good as McGrath was? No Does Barker possess the exact same defensive qualities as McGrath did? No Have I ever claimed either of the above? No And when I talk about perspective it's because you don't seem to be able to judge a player by relative dimensions... McGrath was a very good Prem CB for us... If you dropped him into our squad now he'd be head and shoulders above anything we have... it would make the rest of the squad embarrassed he'd be so much better... Barker is not that... He was a little better than what we have now... and I'm speculating that he will be the same quality when he returns... Who knows? I'd just rather be postitive about it rather than all doom-and-gloom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t'oldu Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 McGrath's strength was his knowledge of the game and the individual players which allowed him to place himself exactly where he was needed with the minimum amount of movement. It was uncanny at times. I thought when Barker returned after his last long spell on the side lines his reading of the game was much better. Perhaps he can find a similar balance if not to the same degree of brilliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulpman Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 That's the thing about McGrath though, his pace came through his reading of the game and knowledge of the opposition. For me he was the best defender I have seen at Pride Park in a Derby shirt (well I did see Sir Mac in a testimonial game but he wasn't quite as mobile as he was in his peak) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maydrakin Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Paul McGrath in his day was a world class defender. The fact that he was, by all accounts, in his late thirties, an alcoholic and his knees were shot, yet was outstanding for us suggests he was a talent. Shaun Barker is a great club man and a decent second division centre back, with a very bad knee injury. Despite that, one can garner a comparison based on relativity. Key Derby centre backs in their relative eras, with suspect knees being the point. Splitting hairs for the sake of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Paul McGrath in his day was a world class defender. The fact that he was, by all accounts, in his late thirties, an alcoholic and his knees were shot, yet was outstanding for us suggests he was a talent. ....didn't half smell of pish though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 perhaps it won't be a surprise, but I agree with emjlc here. I find the comparison poor, and in a similar vein to comparing John Eustace to Dave MacKay. Both McGrath and MacKay were arguably world class at their peak, so even a XX% decrease in ability/pace/fitness would only take them down to 'good' level. Eustace and Barker have been mid-league cloggers at best, both solid professionals, but neither having exceptional ability. I would argue that excellent attitudes to the game have been as important in their careers as ability. Surely its no worse than trying to compare the ability of players from the top division against the abilities of players in the second tier? I think that is where the relativity comes in. I think Cheron85 is trying to say Barker is a good defender for this division and could be as important to the team as McGrath was to our Premiership team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I think Cheron85 is trying to say Barker is a good defender for this division and could be as important to the team as McGrath was to our Premiership team. He is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notts_ram Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I think Cheron85 is trying to say Barker is a good defender for this division Pre-injury I agree, post injury, if he ever comes back, not quite sure about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Pre-injury I agree, post injury, if he ever comes back, not quite sure about that Maybe he'll have been able to improve his reading of the game from being out for so long! I remember Solskjaer saying once that his time at United on the bench allowed him to take a step back from the game and learn a lot about where to be and when etc. Maybe I'm talking total balls! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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