ronnieronalde Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I've been reading the ratings on the other thread and it got me thinking. Not too many so far have rated more than 4 of our players as being top quality championship players. In most eyes we've got two real top quality, 4 or 5 good level and the rest mid table or below. It led me to this question. If our players are not top championship players is it fair to expect the manager to get us promoted? Is it his fault if we don't go up with this squad? Does it mean we think we've only signed average players or are none of us really expecting a play off push at all? Or are we maybe being a little bit too subjective with the ratings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 the thing is Ronnie, if you picked apart the three promoted teams/squads, you would also evaluate many of their players as not being top championship players. It's a falsehood by judges! If you was to ask those people who rated the Derby squad, to analyse every team in the championship, I doubt any would judge there as being more the 8 'top championship player' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Graeme Swann. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you said 'off spin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Our top top players are: Brayford Keogh Grant Ward (Russell???) Any of them would walk into most championship sides, in my opinion others may disagree. Then you have good players in Hughes Hendrick Bryson Martin Sammon. Now simply put with our current squad I would expect Nigel to get a top 8 finish. With a CB and LB top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notts_ram Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 If our players are not top championship players is it fair to expect the manager to get us promoted? Is it his fault if we don't go up with this squad? Holloway did it with a bunch of average players at Blackpool so why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Holloway did it with a bunch of average players at Blackpool so why not? I suppose you could argue that they had a side about on par with ours, with decent players such as; Baptiste, Coleman, Bannan and DJ Campbell. if only we had Charlie Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I suppose you could argue that they had a side about on par with ours, with decent players such as; Baptiste, Coleman, Bannan and DJ Campbell. if only we had Charlie Adam Funnily enough, they sold Barker to get Adam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I'm just going to go balls deep with the cliche here, but... A good team is greater than the sum of its parts. Probably explains why Lampard and Gerrard never could play together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I think the skill of a manager at championship level is using the squad effectively enough to get an extra point (in terms of the player rating system) out of each of the players. I.e. I think if we looked at say hull's players on an individual basis few would be regarded as having the quality to cut it in the prem. However, at this level it's as much about getting the team to work together effectively so that each player in turn plays that little bit above his own perceived level. If we're to do well next year I think we've got to have the likes of bucko (all hail) and Keogh playing consistently at a 7 rather then their own individual 6 level. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense at all. Put simply I think we have a squad, and individual players within it capable of a top 6 finish next season but we'll only be able to do it if the squad as a whole works together effectively for each player to play consistently above his own level. For me it's less about the abilities of the individuals and more about the team and how the players compliment eachother, and added to that what additional impetus they're given by their manager. Clough senior was brilliant at building great teams out of players who might not have been perceived to be outstanding as individuals, but they succeeded because the complimented eachother and wanted to win for the manager. I honestly think Nigel is getting there by working on a similar principle but time will tell if he can get the blend right. Time for another beer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I'm just going to go balls deep with the cliche here, but... A good team is greater than the sum of its parts. Probably explains why Lampard and Gerrard never could play together... Or I could have just said this... Bah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I said in the thread how I was shocked at some of the low ratings for some players, now perhaps I had a different way of looking at things. the division is full of established championship players (rated 6) every team has at least 8/9 of these, at the very least. I was surprised to see people saying Buxton, Sammon, Coutts and Bryson were rated less or around a 6. So, for me - most people have us down as one of the weakest sides in the division, yet expect us to get promotion? It was a bit odd to me. I just assumed people were marking low, and forgot the 'established' championship level was - I hold our team in a high esteem, perhaps disagreeable to some people but to look at it another way - people who rated Bryson at a '6' or lower, which is 'established' championship midfielder, would you be happy to replace him with Michael Tonge, Paul Green, Nadjim Abdou...etc I just didn't understand it. It's obviously all down to opinion, but, you shouldn't be expecting promotion if you think players in our starting 11 could be replaced easily with teams you'd have nailed on to struggle next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 It'd be interesting to give our promotion season side ratings. The Billy one, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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