Our away record

[notts_ram]

So we all know that we have had a terrible away record going back at least 2 seasons, the stats for home and away games this season make interesting reading - the number of goals we have scored and conceded at home is almost a mirror image of those we have scored and conceded in away games - 22 for, 40 against. 

 

We have gained more points at home than Watford and Brighton whom sit 3rd and 4th respectively, yet our away form is letting us down. Paradoxically we normally play with one upfront away from home yet have still shipped nearly 2 goals a game.

 

What makes our away performances so poor, what do we have to do to translate our home form to our away performances next season? I understand that we need to stop shipping goals, especially late ones, but why do we not have this issue at home?

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Mentality. The players don't yet "believe" away from home and won't do until we prove otherwise (a bit chicken & egg). Once the team as a whole believe that we are not going to crack under pressure I think we will see a much more complete side. It's not a coincidence that Nigel is after a new goalkeeper and a new central defender. Once it clicks in their mind just watch us go. Hopefully Grant and Baptiste will be the trigger.

[EastKentRam]

I think lack of pace is quite a big issue.

 

If you're going to sit deep and soak up pressure you have to be able to counter quickly to be effective. We lack out and out wingers or players who can travel with the ball quickly over a distance. I'm not saying we go away intent on soaking up pressure, we're certainly not as bad with this as what we used to be, but when we're under pressure, there's no out. 

 

Alpha made a good post about how we just play in banks, the players are so rigid and the ball just gets passed along these banks. The movement isnt good enough and although we've kept possession well away from home, it's not really anything special as it's just sideways. A better striker who can hold the ball up well would also help. 

[eddie]

I don't think we 'sit deep' deliberately - more we come under pressure and the natural tendency then is for the gap between the two 'fours' becomes more compressed. Then the opposing defenders push forward even more causing our striker(s) to drop back in order to try to give the defence an 'out ball'.

 

The same thing happens to the opposition when we press at home.

 

Your wingers are the first to suffer because the opposition full-backs join in the attack and they have to drop back to prevent the 2 v 1 situations.

[Srg]

We don't attack it enough. Can't defend for 90 minutes and expect to not concede a couple of times. As already stated, pace is big issue. No out ball to relieve pressure.

[eddie]

We don't attack it enough. Can't defend for 90 minutes and expect to not concede a couple of times. As already stated, pace is big issue. No out ball to relieve pressure.

 

Theo had pace to burn - but that didn't stop the opposition from pressing. Pace is only as effective as the person blessed with it.

[Srg]

Not just that but we need to use it effectively. Balls in the channels and not to fit or head. We never manage that part of it.

Theo had pace to burn - but that didn't stop the opposition from pressing. Pace is only as effective as the person blessed with it.

[eddie]

Not just that but we need to use it effectively. Balls in the channels and not to fit or head. We never manage that part of it.

 

There is only one player at the club capable of achieving that level of passing, and that's Will Hughes. People on here whine when he's picking the ball up off the back four, wanting to see him in more advanced positions, but that position (which people often describe as 'defensive midfield') seems absolutely perfect for him. It's similar to the role that David Luiz sometimes plays for Chelsea - sort-of a deep-lying playmaker.

[Mostyn6]

it may appear that we play similar tactics and formations away from home, but in honesty, we actually dont.

 

If you break the pitch down into sixths, we play a 0-4-0-5-1-0 at home, whereas away, we play a 4-0-5-0-1-0.

 

Effectively, we pull our midfield and defence back a 6th, and extend the gap from midfield to Sammon. Thus creating less chances as there is no support for Sammon, and allowing the opposition to step forward themselves, meaning more backs-to-the-wall defending.

 

We sometimes revert like this at home too, when protecting the lead. It backfires though.

[Leicester Ram]

I'd like to see us playing 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2 away from home.

 

If we played some good counter-attacking stuff this season we'd be around the play-offs. I don't think Nigel wants to play like we do at home away, so if we leave 3 up top and have a big defensive unit of a back 4 and 3 CM's, we can still put some attacking pressure on but remain solid.

 

I think this would work well with Hendrick and Hughes, who can charge up the pitch.

[davenportram]

There is only one player at the club capable of achieving that level of passing, and that's Will Hughes. People on here whine when he's picking the ball up off the back four, wanting to see him in more advanced positions, but that position (which people often describe as 'defensive midfield') seems absolutely perfect for him. It's similar to the role that David Luiz sometimes plays for Chelsea - sort-of a deep-lying playmaker.

Hendrick has started picking great passes out too - he's the advanced playmaker. Making runs creating space and making some great passes

[Mostyn6]

Hendrick has started picking great passes out too - he's the advanced playmaker. Making runs creating space and making some great passes

 

He can hardly be described as an advanced playmaker if he only gets in the final 3rd three times a game.

 

An advanced playmaker is someone like Hazard or Mata, or even Coutinho and Downing. At this level, maybe McCormack, Whittingham, Zaha or Majewski... getting in the area not just the final third.

[Derbydave96]

I think this shows that we need pace on the wings, realistically were not going to dominate all the time away from home, look at palace when they came to PP they were outplayed all game but they still had a number of chances and got the goal due to pace on the flanks

[Mostyn6]

I think this shows that we need pace on the wings, realistically were not going to dominate all the time away from home, look at palace when they came to PP they were outplayed all game but they still had a number of chances and got the goal due to pace on the flanks

 

In theory you're right, but pace wouldn't have the required effect in the way we play. For pace to have an effect, the starting (or receiving) position for the winger on the ball needs to be about level with where the final 3rd starts. Currently, that would be level with where Sammon spends most of the game. Effective wingers don't start on the halfway line.

[Subman]

What makes our away performances so poor, what do we have to do to translate our home form to our away performances next season? I understand that we need to stop shipping goals, especially late ones, but why do we not have this issue at home?

 

Well here is one for starters, since 2007 we have worn a black away shirt for 3 seasons including this season, I am sure you will be shocked to hear during those 3 seasons we have NEVER won wearing the black shirt, NEVER!!!

[Derbydave96]

In theory you're right, but pace wouldn't have the required effect in the way we play. For pace to have an effect, the starting (or receiving) position for the winger on the ball needs to be about level with where the final 3rd starts. Currently, that would be level with where Sammon spends most of the game. Effective wingers don't start on the halfway line.

I agree with what your saying, and it may not be effective at home, but away from PP if we were to play a 4-5-1 style formation, which would allow for more solidarity in the middle, a pacy winger would be further forward and therefore more effective

Also it may result in more goals for sammon as he currently has to chase the ball down the flanks as coutts is not quick enough, and he'd be able to stay more central?

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Not tactics, not natural ability. Just confidence & the winning mentality. One or two additions with even the same ability but a tougher mind set will sort us out.

[Albert]

So we all know that we have had a terrible away record going back at least 2 seasons, the stats for home and away games this season make interesting reading - the number of goals we have scored and conceded at home is almost a mirror image of those we have scored and conceded in away games - 22 for, 40 against. 

 

We have gained more points at home than Watford and Brighton whom sit 3rd and 4th respectively, yet our away form is letting us down. Paradoxically we normally play with one upfront away from home yet have still shipped nearly 2 goals a game.

 

What makes our away performances so poor, what do we have to do to translate our home form to our away performances next season? I understand that we need to stop shipping goals, especially late ones, but why do we not have this issue at home?

Two seasons notts... really? We were very midtable in the away stakes last season. If the season were decided by away record last season, we would have been 2 points off 8th and a massive 10 off the bottom 3. Our away form this season was a disaster, but it wasn't last season.

The issue seems to be a soft defence. We concede in too many games, and when the rot sets in away, you can't stop it if we need to score at least one, if not two to get even a point. A better defence could be the key here, but ultimately we need that confidence, but that'll only come through winning away from home. If we can maintain our home form from this season though, we could be a force with even a mediocre away record.

If we had this season's home record and last season's away record, we'd have finished 6th, with 70 points. Says it all really.

[randombc]

I don't understand why you can't play the same away from home as you can at home.

 

The grass is still green, the ball's still round and the nets are the same size.

 

I think Clough has got an attitude of 'try not to lose' rather then 'go and try and win', and I think players are relatively happy to go to away teams and take a draw.

[eddie]

I don't understand why you can't play the same away from home as you can at home.

 

The grass is still green, the ball's still round and the nets are the same size.

 

I think Clough has got an attitude of 'try not to lose' rather then 'go and try and win', and I think players are relatively happy to go to away teams and take a draw.

 

Every single team has always had that attitude pretty well forever. Solve it, and you will have solved a conundrum that was first posed in 1888. Why are teams invariably better at home than they are away? There are as many reasons as there are stars in the sky, fans in the stadium or onions in the hot dog - but none of them are quantifiable.

 

Perhaps we have a good home record because everyone else who comes to Pride Park are relatively happy to take a draw before we start.