Hope.

[TroyDyer]

I hope you stop posting. You are very materialistic too aren't you. I think people actually want love, health, happiness, friendship but are told to hope for your materialistic things so they remain on the capitalist wheel.

We've been rubbish for years now, but finally have the makings of a good team and squad. Great time to lose all your hope.

I randomly threw in examples. Yet you can make a character judgement that I'm materialistic. You don't even know me. 

 

I have lost all my hope in Clough. Not the club. If you actually got your head out your arse, you'd have been able to read that in the original post. 

[RamNut]

So what point was you making then?

I was merely pointing out two managers that had been more successful than the previous.

Ok i interpreted it as follows......

jayram made reference to times when change was desperately needed.

You then made reference to when roy mac was replaced by jim smith.

Most people thought that roy had done ok and were sad to see him go.

If all you're saying is that change can be for the better then obviously that is correct.

[ariotofmyown]

I randomly threw in examples. Yet you can make a character judgement that I'm materialistic. You don't even know me.

I have lost all my hope in Clough. Not the club. If you actually got your head out your arse, you'd have been able to read that in the original post.

Random examples? I thought these points were critical in your argument as they ultimately implied Clough had to go.

If I followed your well thought out opening post correctly, you prove we are as good as dead if we quit pretending that one day we might get lots of high priced items. (Apologies, I mistook your use of 'we' here to include yourself. I now realise you were talking about everyone else, not us)

Now this was proved, you could now go on to propose the colloary that Clough must go as you have no hope in him. But you have just described hope as the belief in something you know not possible.

The solution you propose is to bring someone else in who may or may not do well. Doesn't matter really, it's all about trying to fool yourself into believing something you know can't happen.

Except in can happen. It would be difficult to make a case that we are not easily better now than we have ever been under Clough.

Surprisingly, Bris made half a good post on this recently, in how we finished higher last season than our quality of performance probably deserved. And that a lower league position this year but with better performances would constitute an improvement.

If we start next season with a team that contains Brayford, Keough, Hughes and Hendrick, plus 2-3 good signings, with most of our first 16 still here, with Bennett possibly becoming a starter and more kids coming through, is that really a situation without 'hope'? Barker coming back?

Obviously we could sell some of our best players, but I'm assuming your opinion of Clough is informed by constraints put on wages and transfers. And these same constraints will be there if we had a new manager. Except all the added costs of changing all the staff.

Be careful what you hope for.

[TroyDyer]

My loss of hope is not with the players coming through, but with Nigel himself. 

 

I simply don't think he has the ability to take us anywhere near the play offs. We're flirted with them but we were never going to get there because he simply doesn't have the tactical ability, or man management, to take us over the line. 

 

It's all well and good having promising young players coming through, but with his lack of ability, and the fact that he constantly shifts blame on to them, means they'll never grow to their full potential under him. 

 

Having Nigel as manager of these talented young players is as much use as having a 12" cock, and a face like Ian Dowie.

[Duracell]

We finished 9th in 1994/95 - 10 points off the playoffs, and in those days funnily enough, that wasn't considered good enough for a club like ours. How times change.

We also weren't in the recovery period from being the worst team of all time back then...

 

I understand your point, we shouldn't be accepting the situation, but it's not a simple case of everyone accepting nothing less than the top six. I am starting to suspect we're being held back by a number of issues now, and one of them sits on the touchline.

[EastKentRam]

I agree, I've nearly lost all hope for the first time in my Derby County supporting career. 

 

A couple of seasons ago I travelled from Bournemouth to Burnley for a 5.20 kick off for a game that was live on sky to watch us play. Now, I couldnt be bothered to travel from my home in Kent to Watford a couple of weeks ago to watch us play. 

 

When it's possible to accurately predict where a team will finish in one of the most unpredictable leagues in the world, you've got problems. 

[Duracell]

When it's possible to accurately predict where a team will finish in one of the most unpredictable leagues in the world, you've got problems. 

Does anybody have a few marker pens and a few sets of bedsheets they don't want anymore? I'd love to make this quote into a banner.

[Stive Pesley]

Having Nigel as manager of these talented young players is as much use as having a 12" cock, and a face like Ian Dowie.

 

You know that Ian Dowie's wife is blind don't you?

[TroyDyer]

You know that Ian Dowie's wife is blind don't you?

And I imagine she's very grateful for this. 

[Stive Pesley]

Not as grateful as he is!

[smiffy]

We also weren't in the recovery period from being the worst team of all time back then...

 

I understand your point, we shouldn't be accepting the situation, but it's not a simple case of everyone accepting nothing less than the top six. I am starting to suspect we're being held back by a number of issues now, and one of them sits on the touchline.

Don't you think, maybe, just maybe, the excuse of recovering from something that happened six  seasons ago is wearing just a tad thin ?.

[Asanovic]

The club is crying out for change - a fresh start under a new manager with a proper pedigree at this level. Can you imagine the galvanising effect someone like Adkins would have at the club? Season ticket sales would go through the roof and every one of us would be energised. New manager, better tactics, better contacts in the game maybe, better scouting network, maybe better quality players or at least existing players being coached to a higher standard. Everything would change for the better under the right manager. We are dead in the water under Clough - yes he has worked to his brief from the board but in doing so he has drained many of us of our enthusiasm and interest. It cannot be denied that fans are staying away in droves from PP and that ST renewals are likely to be down again this summer. Change is desperately needed and Clough has to go - the last 4 years illustrate that he has not got what it takes to lead the club to success.

You reckon Adkins could get this team promoted? Infact, you reckon anyone could? I doubt it, very much.

 

Not saying we don't need a change at some point, but forget who the manager is - without some solid investment, in addition to keeping hold of our best players, we'll be here for years to come.

[Asanovic]

I agree, I've nearly lost all hope for the first time in my Derby County supporting career. 

 

A couple of seasons ago I travelled from Bournemouth to Burnley for a 5.20 kick off for a game that was live on sky to watch us play. Now, I couldnt be bothered to travel from my home in Kent to Watford a couple of weeks ago to watch us play. 

 

When it's possible to accurately predict where a team will finish in one of the most unpredictable leagues in the world, you've got problems. 

Where will we finish?

 

From what I can see we could finish 10th, or 22nd...

[Duracell]

Don't you think, maybe, just maybe, the excuse of recovering from something that happened six  seasons ago is wearing just a tad thin ?.

No, I don't, not when it's something that big.

[DCFCPhoenix]

There can be no true despair without hope- Bane

[Jayram]

You reckon Adkins could get this team promoted? Infact, you reckon anyone could? I doubt it, very much.

 

Not saying we don't need a change at some point, but forget who the manager is - without some solid investment, in addition to keeping hold of our best players, we'll be here for years to come.

 

I mentioned Adkins only because he is available and talented at this level. It could be someone like Brian McDermott  even.Could Adkins get this team promoted? Probably not as it stands but I believe he would bring in better players and get more out the existing squad than Nigel, and that that would lay the foundations for a genuine crack at the top 6 sooner than Clough will manage it. More importantly there would be some feeling of hope. That is what is missing for me; there is a total lack of hope for the future under NC. A new manager of the calibre of Adkins would bring progress, a feeling of moving forward.

[Asanovic]

I mentioned Adkins only because he is available and talented at this level. It could be someone like Brian McDermott  even.Could Adkins get this team promoted? Probably not as it stands but I believe he would bring in better players and get more out the existing squad than Nigel, and that that would lay the foundations for a genuine crack at the top 6 sooner than Clough will manage it. More importantly there would be some feeling of hope. That is what is missing for me; there is a total lack of hope for the future under NC. A new manager of the calibre of Adkins would bring progress, a feeling of moving forward.

Bring in better players. With what?

 

The signing of Sammon is a highly contentious issue, but the fact is we got him rather than Sharp, Cox, or anyone else people might have wanted is because of his wages. We're priced out by our owners budgets, and subsequently priced out by other clubs.

 

But other than that, I'm not sure many managers could have bought better than Brayford, Keogh, and Ward given the money available - you'd have to say they're probably up there with the best around for the prices we paid.

 

There are definitely better managers than Nigel Clough, I don't dispute that at all. But if you think changing the manager alone will solve things, I really think you'll be disappointed.

 

I say stick with him this summer, if we can keep hold of everyone he wants and then buy in the areas we need then he's totally responsible for getting the team in to the top six. But at the moment, it's a little unfair to criticise us not pushing for the play offs with a team not nearly capable of it.

[Guest]

Bring in better players. With what?

 

The signing of Sammon is a highly contentious issue, but the fact is we got him rather than Sharp, Cox, or anyone else people might have wanted is because of his wages. We're priced out by our owners budgets, and subsequently priced out by other clubs.

 

But other than that, I'm not sure many managers could have bought better than Brayford, Keogh, and Ward given the money available - you'd have to say they're probably up there with the best around for the prices we paid.

 

There are definitely better managers than Nigel Clough, I don't dispute that at all. But if you think changing the manager alone will solve things, I really think you'll be disappointed.

 

I say stick with him this summer, if we can keep hold of everyone he wants and then buy in the areas we need then he's totally responsible for getting the team in to the top six. But at the moment, it's a little unfair to criticise us not pushing for the play offs with a team not nearly capable of it.

Every summer we hear let's see what happens next season, how many summers are we going to give him?

Lets not forget that keogh cost over a million, sammon regardless of if the fee was 600 or another million will be on a couple of quid given he came from a prem club. Whilst I agree the investors may not be helping compared to other clubs at he top, there are not many managers around that have been afforded 4 years to put together what is still at best a mid table side.

We have not even flirted with promotion during that period, have never beaten a prem league club during his reign, and have won so few away games its amazing. The manager bemoans the lack of depth available when we have injuries, yet still loans out 2 forwards and a midfielder which could help change a game when the youngsters need a rest.

Going back to sammon, Clough stated he was his number 1 target, and was keogh, so it appears at least on the face of it, he has been getting the players he wanted, I'm not saying our investors are the best far from it, but maybe they would be encouraged to losen the purse strings if we had a manager that looked up rather than down all the time.

[Asanovic]

Every summer we hear let's see what happens next season, how many summers are we going to give him?

Lets not forget that keogh cost over a million, sammon regardless of if the fee was 600 or another million will be on a couple of quid given he came from a prem club. Whilst I agree the investors may not be helping compared to other clubs at he top, there are not many managers around that have been afforded 4 years to put together what is still at best a mid table side.

We have not even flirted with promotion during that period, have never beaten a prem league club during his reign, and have won so few away games its amazing. The manager bemoans the lack of depth available when we have injuries, yet still loans out 2 forwards and a midfielder which could help change a game when the youngsters need a rest.

Going back to sammon, Clough stated he was his number 1 target, and was keogh, so it appears at least on the face of it, he has been getting the players he wanted, I'm not saying our investors are the best far from it, but maybe they would be encouraged to losen the purse strings if we had a manager that looked up rather than down all the time.

Who says 'let's see what happens next season'? I've always thought this will be what happens - years of rebuilding, with (hopefully), us coming out the other end next year. I've never once expected us to get promoted because we've not been capable of it - the personnel, and league positions, have suggested that.

 

He's been given four years, but f*ck all money (by comparison) to build a side capable of promotion. Look at the clubs at the top, look at the wages their players are on, then look at ours. There's a reason we've got Buxton instead of Wes Morgan, an exhausted Will Hughes instead of Tommy Smith, and Connor Sammon instead of Billy Sharp - we can't afford them! It doesn't matter if he had ten years, the reality is until players like that want to come to us instead of other clubs, we can't compete. Doesn't matter who the manager is.

 

The day to day management is one thing - his tactics are so frustrating at times, and our away mentality is becoming alarming. But to slate him for not building a side that should be promoted is ridiculous.

 

The messages coming from Sam Rush are that this season is the one where NC will get the players he wants without having to sell anyone.

 

The most galling thing for me will be if we were to get a new manager, and then make a load of money available. It'd be a real kick in the teeth, and basically a waste of 4 years.

[TroyDyer]

Would you trust Nigel Clough with the money though?

 

This board will expect promotion if they invest a decent amount of money on players.

 

If we had the previous players you've mentioned...Morgan, Smith, Sharp etc, would Clough all of a sudden gain major tactical ability? Would he suddenly become a positive manager away from home? I very much doubt it. 

 

I personally think Nigel has found his level. Mid to lower NPC. Which is great if he's manager of Swindon, Huddersfield, Rotherham...but he isn't. This club, and it's fans expect more. 

 

The wee jock has proved what a manager can do without spending money, as did Redknapp when he returned to keep Pompey up the second time. They didn't spend money, they just made the players play.