cheron85 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 List of managers since I've been watching Derby are: Arthur Cox Roy Mac Jim Smith Colin Todd John Gregory George Burley Phil Brown Billy Davies Paul Jewell Nigel Clough I'd say from that list we have a 50/50 record with managers including a couple on their who were successes at other teams and then came to us and were shocking... So whilst I feel the team are improving (inch by painful inch) I'd rather not take the risk that we might bring in someone awful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 If you we're to put those managers in order: best to worst, where would Clough be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Would you trust Nigel Clough with the money though? This board will expect promotion if they invest a decent amount of money on players. If we had the previous players you've mentioned...Morgan, Smith, Sharp etc, would Clough all of a sudden gain major tactical ability? Would he suddenly become a positive manager away from home? I very much doubt it. I personally think Nigel has found his level. Mid to lower NPC. Which is great if he's manager of Swindon, Huddersfield, Rotherham...but he isn't. This club, and it's fans expect more. The wee jock has proved what a manager can do without spending money, as did Redknapp when he returned to keep Pompey up the second time. They didn't spend money, they just made the players play. I've got no reason not to trust him, because he's done ok in the market, on the whole IMO. Of course it would make a difference with different players. We hold on to games trying not to lose because we don't have the attacking quality or the bottle to for the jugular and beat teams, particularly away from home. Signing players of the calibre you mentioned would obviously improve that. Clearly we wouldn't be frightened to death of losing away from home if Billy Sharp was upfront. We'd be attacking, going for a goal. Teams would be afraid of us. What has Davies proved? That new managers often have positive effects? That theory is tried and tested. Someone new could come here and probably turn a few results round, but without spending money we'll never improve long term. You're right, I expect more. I expect more money to be available to improve this squad without having to hack away at it. Then, I expect the manager to steer the team towards the top six. If he doesn't, then I think he should be replaced. With the current team, I expect us to finish mid table. We're currently meeting expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 If you we're to put those managers in order: best to worst, where would Clough be? In the middle somewhere? Jim Smith George Burley Billy Davies (HATE to put him there but he did theoretically make us the 3rd best team in the Champs) Nigel Clough Arthur Cox Roy Mac Colin Todd John Gregory Phil Brown Paul Jewell Maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 In the middle somewhere? Jim Smith George Burley Billy Davies (HATE to put him there but he did theoretically make us the 3rd best team in the Champs) Nigel Clough Arthur Cox Roy Mac Colin Todd John Gregory Phil Brown Paul Jewell Maybe? Would probably swap Gregory and Brown but apart from that I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Would probably swap Gregory and Brown but apart from that I agree I'd say everyone from Roy Mac down could be in any order you care to name... Main point being that Gregory and Jewell at least looked like fairly decent appointments at the time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Actually checking the stats I'm being a little unfair to the guys I can't remember that well (Cox and Roy Mac)... My excuse being I was 10 when Roy Mac left and had only been a season ticket holder for a coupla years by then... Jim Smith George Burley Billy Davies (HATE to put him there but he did theoretically make us the 3rd best team in the Champs) Roy Mac Nigel Clough Arthur Cox Colin Todd John Gregory Phil Brown Paul Jewell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 And found some win percentages here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Derby_County_F.C._managers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I'm surprised that a manager who got promotion and lead derby to their higest league position out of all them listed (I could be wrong here) is below Nigel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I'm surprised that a manager who got promotion and lead derby to their higest league position out of all them listed (I could be wrong here) is below Nigel. Sorry... copy and paste error on my part... Jim Smith George Burley Billy Davies (HATE to put him there but he did theoretically make us the 3rd best team in the Champs) Arthur Cox Nigel Clough Roy Mac Colin Todd John Gregory Phil Brown Paul Jewell My argument for Roy Mac is that he had the team which Cox had put together and went backwards with them... COULD easily argue otherwise, and that Cox could be ahead of the angry scottish w****r... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 King Arthur was number 2 he took us from tier 3 to tier 1 and you could argue he was number 1. I don't remember well enough and I'm working on the basis that he also oversaw a relegation... which the 3 above him didn't... Maybe unfair as the mad scot did royally screw us but he bailed before the going got tough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 King Arthur was number 2 he took us from tier 3 to tier 1 and you could argue he was number 1. Also, more than happy to take any of the top 4 in any order you like... same with the bottom 4... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I don't remember well enough and I'm working on the basis that he also oversaw a relegation... which the 3 above him didn't... Maybe unfair as the mad scot did royally screw us but he bailed before the going got tough... Sorry... copy and paste error on my part... Jim Smith George Burley Billy Davies (HATE to put him there but he did theoretically make us the 3rd best team in the Champs) Arthur Cox Nigel Clough Roy Mac Colin Todd John Gregory Phil Brown Paul Jewell My argument for Roy Mac is that he had the team which Cox had put together and went backwards with them... COULD easily argue otherwise, and that Cox could be ahead of the angry scottish w****r... Id have to have Cox at number 1, followed by Smith, Davies and then Burley, Cox did takes us down but if memory serves me right it was under Maxwell when he could bring no-one in. Todd was given only a couple of months, and Roy Mac was sacked after an average second season in charge, after taking us to the play offs in his first. Just shows how average Clough is though imo, next year will be his 5th in charge, and the highest we will have finished under him is 12th, and I wonder if there has been a manager in Derbys history that has been afforded the time he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Id have to have Cox at number 1, followed by Smith, Davies and then Burley, Cox did takes us down but if memory serves me right it was under Maxwell when he could bring no-one in. Todd was given only a couple of months, and Roy Mac was sacked after an average second season in charge, after taking us to the play offs in his first. Just shows how average Clough is though imo, next year will be his 5th in charge, and the highest we will have finished under him is 12th, and I wonder if there has been a manager in Derbys history that has been afforded the time he has. Fair enough... Cos was in under Maxwell the whole time I think so maybe the funds dried up after the 2 promotions? My original point was that Nigel is not the worst manager we've had in the last 20 years, and bringing in "proven" managers like Di Canio hasn't been great in the past... It's the managerial equivalent of throwing vast amounts of money at the team in order to get prmoted... Boom or Bust football but playing with the manager not the players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 so pretty unanimous that Clough is average, yet you say youd rather stick with mid table championship when its just as likely that a Jim Smith or Arthur Cox is waiting for a phone call. youre scared of change because we could get a phil brown or paul jewell. it doesnt make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedram Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 The wee jock has proved what a manager can do without spending money, as did Redknapp when he returned to keep Pompey up the second time. They didn't spend money, they just made the players play. Arent people slightly forgetting that the wee jock was sacked by Forest because he had serious money to spend and didnt get them promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Fair enough... Cos was in under Maxwell the whole time I think so maybe the funds dried up after the 2 promotions? My original point was that Nigel is not the worst manager we've had in the last 20 years, and bringing in "proven" managers like Di Canio hasn't been great in the past... It's the managerial equivalent of throwing vast amounts of money at the team in order to get prmoted... Boom or Bust football but playing with the manager not the players... No, Arthur Cox was there under Lionel Pickering - remember the Short, Wassall, Gabbiadini, Johnson, Kitson etc. team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Hope isn't the issue it's the love for the club that's the issue for me. I realised the other week I don't have the same feelings at a game. You know that tingle of adrenalin when when we got near the oppo's box. Where you find yourself lifting off your seat a few inches, hovering, expecting and hoping that we score. Your eyes widen a little and your arms are slowly rising up by your sides, your fists clenched and your knuckles going white. If we score then the standing up motion would be complete and with such velocity that you end up half jumping, your arms fully extend, fists pumping. There's a scream of enjoyment. Then, with a big smile on your face, you have a bit of a clap and maybe a "get in there" and you may even break out in a little chant. Then if the oppo were near our box there was nervousness, the panic you could feel in your gut. The worry we were about to concede. You'd be there part wincing "no, no, no, no. Get rid, get rid!!" I don't feel like this as much and I hate to say the last time I jumped out of my seat for a goal was actually when Bale scored for Spurs against West Ham. I want that excitement back, I want those feelings back. I don't give a toss who's fault it is anymore just give me something to be excited about. When more and more fans are on about not renewing season tickets, when the atmosphere in the ground is getting worse then changes are needed. We're pointing our fingers at different people saying they're the problem and that in itself is a problem because when we're not together there's no common voice for people to listen to. And I fear we won't be cheering for a while and more people will go. The Daily Telegraph once reported "Derby is a passionate football town. Possibly more so than Nottingham... Even in Division Two, it's a reasonable bet that crowds at Pride Park would not fall far below 20,000. It's historical, it's geographical, it's in the blood. Some places have it, some don't." We will lose this. We won't have it much longer if this continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 so pretty unanimous that Clough is average, yet you say youd rather stick with mid table championship when its just as likely that a Jim Smith or Arthur Cox is waiting for a phone call. youre scared of change because we could get a phil brown or paul jewell. it doesnt make sense to me. Clough + no money = mid table Clough + money = who knows - he deserves a chance to find out though A.N.Other + money = who knows. But we've got a manager already - why not give him the chance to spend some money first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Wilko: You've nailed it there (apart from the Bale thing). Having Clough there gives them a sort of buffer. He's failed to meet their targets every season, yet they know they can't get rid of him because then the spotlight would very much be on them to back othe manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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