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Should it be the owners or the fans say?


Boycie

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Who decides if Clough should stay or go?

We spend our money, and without us there'd be no "club"

The owners spend £7million every year on debts.

If the majority want him gone, should they listen?

 

Well of course they should, but life isn't like that. 

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A vote of no confidence by the fans ought to count for something.

Maybe a vote of no confidence regarding the owners too.

What's really changed since the protests outside the ground 2 seasons ago?

 

 I didn't see any fans protests apropos Adkins at Southampton but the board still got rid of him

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A vote of no confidence by the fans ought to count for something.

Maybe a vote of no confidence regarding the owners too.

What's really changed since the protests outside the ground 2 seasons ago?

 What's changed? Things have got worse! Attendances, performances, players and the Manager's attitude

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Yeah if the majority want him gone they should listen. Angry fans can make life difficult.

But the majority will never want him gone. Lots of fence sitters. Lots of support for him.

Truth is that he's here to do just what he's doing. Keep a cheap team looking for a fluke season while his surname stops impatient fans from becoming a bloody thirsty mob.

The board have everything just how they want. I'm sure they 100% believe our fluke promotion payday will come. It's easy for us to say 'gamble your cash', 'sack Clough'...... The tide might be rough, but the boat ain't rocking.

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whats your point?

 

Very aggressive line of questioning. My point was that why would the board need to have fans protesting outside of the ground to make up their own mind about whether the manager they have in charge is good enough or not. And am sure that 90% of the fans at Southampton were happy with Adkins but the board decided to bullet him regardless and fly in the face of popular opinion. 

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Very aggressive line of questioning. My point was that why would the board need to have fans protesting outside of the ground to make up their own mind about whether the manager they have in charge is good enough or not. And am sure that 90% of the fans at Southampton were happy with Adkins but the board decided to bullet him regardless and fly in the face of popular opinion. 

The Sputhampton board has been slated for controversial stuff, ours is slated for lack of backbone.

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Very aggressive line of questioning. My point was that why would the board need to have fans protesting outside of the ground to make up their own mind about whether the manager they have in charge is good enough or not. And am sure that 90% of the fans at Southampton were happy with Adkins but the board decided to bullet him regardless and fly in the face of popular opinion. 

not meant to be aggressive, but I couldn't see the relivance?
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The owners have to judge whether Clough meets the standards of their 'plan'. If Clough is failing in that plan, he'll go. That plan seems to be a very slow build on with the hopes of a decent cheap signing and building on youth. He's achieving it.

We've had a poor few months but Clough has mostly delivered what hes been asked, the end of this season is going badly but he's still mostly doing what you'd expect with our squad. I've started to turn against him somewhat with some decisions myself, atleast tactically. Decisions like dropping Theo who was again scoring alot of goals, using Sammon as a target man when he can't often do it, these things annoy me. But not enough for him to go.

I would not listen to fans at all, I would ask the owners to look at whatever their plans are and ask themselves each season if he's meeting requirements. At the moment we're a mid-table side, and have been for some time. But that has been an improvement on much of the last ten years or more. Not much is changing, we won't go down, and we won't go near the play-offs. He's doing an average job with not much cash.

Is that deserving of a sacking? Not really.

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not meant to be aggressive, but I couldn't see the relivance?

 

No worries.  I am just resigned that like Maxwell in the 80's the current board would not give 2 hoots about what the fans thought if it was in variance with their own financial plans. And I realise the fat man was never at the ground to hear the protests but the current board did not make the stack of cash they have between them by being deflected from their business agenda.

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We aren't mid table though, we are currently in the bottom half of the league. If we was mid table we'd be 11th-12th, not 15th...how's that "mid table"?

The fans seem to judge Clough on his brand of "brilliant", "superb" "excellent" football and not how He goes about getting the three points.

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The owners have to judge whether Clough meets the standards of their 'plan'. If Clough is failing in that plan, he'll go. That plan seems to be a very slow build on with the hopes of a decent cheap signing and building on youth. He's achieving it.

We've had a poor few months but Clough has mostly delivered what hes been asked, the end of this season is going badly but he's still mostly doing what you'd expect with our squad. I've started to turn against him somewhat with some decisions myself, atleast tactically. Decisions like dropping Theo who was again scoring alot of goals, using Sammon as a target man when he can't often do it, these things annoy me. But not enough for him to go.

I would not listen to fans at all, I would ask the owners to look at whatever their plans are and ask themselves each season if he's meeting requirements. At the moment we're a mid-table side, and have been for some time. But that has been an improvement on much of the last ten years or more. Not much is changing, we won't go down, and we won't go near the play-offs. He's doing an average job with not much cash.

Is that deserving of a sacking? Not really.

Yep.

But many fans just want the board to ask if there's a man out there that can do a more than "average job with not much cash. "

I'm going to use a terrible example here. If Billy Davies took charge of us at the turn of the year would we be any better off? I don't like him. I don't want him. He's got no potential to improve on what he is. He knows the football in this division. He knows the pacing, the percentages, the players....

I'm still on the fence and I don't think Billy will ever achieve much more than he has already. I can just understand that 'doing ok' isn't always enough. You really want to find people who are the best at what they do of course.

Is Nigel the best man for the job?

*back on the fence*

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Is Nigel the best man for the job?

 

 

That is the question, what do you define as the job? Am sure the boards definition of Clough doing a good job is wildly at variance with many fans opinions on here. But it's the board opinion that ultimately counts. 

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Yep.

But many fans just want the board to ask if there's a man out there that can do a more than 'average' job with not much cash.

I'm going to use a terrible example here. If Billy Davies took charge of us at the turn of the year would we be any better off? I don't like him. I don't want him. He's got no potential to improve on what he is. He knows the football in this division. He knows the pacing, the percentages, the players....

I'm still on the fence and I don't think Billy will ever achieve much more than he has already. I can just understand that 'doing ok' isn't always enough. You really want to find people who are the best at what they do of course.

Is Nigel the best man for the job?

*back on the fence*

Even doing ok has been alright, considering our recent history. It's at this point that you need to start to progress, and we seem to have not so much taken a step back as gone nowhere this season.

Keith Hill tried to instill great football at Barnsley with next to no money, he couldn't do it. Dave Flitcroft has come in and has them playing with a rough and tumble style that they'll perform better with but almost certainly won't go anywhere with unless they get a talismanic striker or a great playmaker and hope for a play-off attempt. (That is not an insult to the bloke, I like him, just a sign of what you can't do without cash).

Billy Davies wouldn't survive for long with nothing to spend, he'd have complained and left within a year or more. We'd have been effective, poor to watch, but effective. Personally I lament the day we decided to stop playing as we did with Bueno, even if we'd have had to break the bank and spent a little more than usual to find the right players to play around technical players like that. The league couldn't handle it.

Seems like a missed oppurtunity. Nigel will do for now, i'd be curious to see who else would be available to come in, but who else is there? Very few spring to mine who could make a big impact, look how often managers revolve in this league. Very rarely does a manager stick, and given our financial setting, one bad manager could send us down, it's not like we can spend our way out of trouble.

I'm content, if not happy, till the end of next season. That's how long I said i'd give him, as for the first three years or so he was more cleaning up a mess than building a team, given the Prem aftermath and the injury crisis' we had in that time. After that? Who knows.

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