R@M

12 hours ago, RamNut said:

the flight arrangements were not made on behalf of Nantes. The agents had also arranged numerous flights for cardiff city and warnock in an identical manner. To be absolutely pedantic it was Willie McKay's son who was the agent contracted to Nantes. His father arranged the flight, so any link to Nantes is very tenuous indeed. 

 

So the agent father, who may have a stake in the player (part owner?) arranged the flight on behalf of his agent son, who brokered the deal for Nantes, and who may be part of the same agency as his father? 

If the flight is found to be negligent in law, the defendants could include (and not exclusively)

1.Nantes as potential employers of the flight procurer

2.The agent as flight procurer

3.the pilot

4.Agent/part owner Willie McKay for instructing his son 

It is a mess, and may seem pedantic, but that is what insurance is, as is tort law.  I don’t blame Cardiff for not just handing over 15million. 

19 hours ago, reveldevil said:

That is a great find, makes you wonder if the BBC are unaware of it's existence?

The link is to a BBC news website so......probably?

On 17/02/2019 at 13:24, RamNut said:

the agent was acting on behalf of Nantes to get the best deal. The emails to Sala also reveal that he didn't really want to go to cardiff. He wanted a move to a better premier league club. The agent explained that there wasn't any other interest, and any disappointment he felt was their fault as they leaked the fictitious stories about everton and west ham to 'generate interest'. But they re-assured him that he would get a better move in the future, and that Warnock liked him because he was a typical English centre forward. Thats standard.

the agents were simply trying to help him, and offered to organise a flight with a third party that they had obviously used many times before.

I think the problems began with regards to the time of the flight. Mckays son asked sala what time he wanted to fly back and he said  9pm. They came back to him and asked if he could make it earlier as the pilot had to fly on to the north of england. I suspect that the time of the flight was the reason for the possible change of pilot. Even after that there may have been confusion over the time of the flight, as it was reported that the pilot was up early in readiness for a 7.30 am flight back, not the 7.30pm flight that sala had agreed. He then had to wait around all day. 

another strange aspect was the agents comment that sala's mother could receive £1m. Not sure how that could come about but this is the murky world of football transfers. I thought that all payments to agents etc had to be declared as part of the transfer form. Where the £1m cut comes from is obscure.

Sadly accidents such as this come about due to a combination of circumstances and errors. One of those errors was presumably the time of the flight and another was the choice of pilot. Incidentally when sala asked what the cost would be, he was told 'nothing'. He might have thought it was a freebie from a grateful agent but we now know that the reason that there is no charge is because the private pilot was not licensed to carry paying customers. Therefore it seems as though from the outset, that the pilot was never going to be a commercially qualified pilot. Again maybe that is normal but I think i would want to know that if i was sala. there was no reason for any secrecy. Probably just too many third parties involved. 

Cardiff may blame the agent for negligence in the flight arrangements, and may therefore be unwilling to pay that bit of the transfer that equates to his fee. Similarly they might blame Nantes for arranging sala's return for a series of goodbye events. But it would be shocking to attempt to renegotiate the agreed fee now on the basis that they had been misled.

This suggests that they have no intention of paying the agreed fee.

 

Concise and sensible presumption. You are however missing one very important fact. The agent, who arranged the plane, was engaged (you could say employed) by Nantes to find a buyer, conduct all the negotiations and then arranged the flight. I think it is entirely appropriate for Cardiff to withhold payment until the outcome of the investigations are completed. Nantes could be ultimately responsible from a negligent point of view.

If you buy a one off, (painting for example) and the transport arranged by the owner is responsible for damaging it, even if you have agreed to buy it, would you?

1 hour ago, Inglorius said:

Just read an interview with the Cardiff City Chairman saying that if they are contractually obliged to pay the transfer fee to Nantes then they will do.

Why wouldn't they be contractually obliged? If the guy was killed by walking infront of a bus would they be having the same argument 

Irrelevant,  unless he was told to sit in the path of the bus by Nantes? Did Nantes also hire the bus and was the driver qualified to drive the bus? I’d suggest the same conversation would be had. 

I am generally not a fan of Cardiff, but think it is a sensible decision to wait on outcomes from the investigation and possible court action before paying a penny. 

Also, should the thread title now be changed?

On 08/02/2019 at 10:51, StivePesley said:

Seems almost certainly to just be an "act of god" for insurance purposes. The weather was terrible and the pilot had already radioed ahead asking to make an emergency landing. So that makes it even more contentious in terms of getting a payout

It would be horrible, given the outpouring of grief from Cardiff fans over a player they never saw play, if this just ended up in a nasty argument over money

 

It may not be deemed an act of god. 

Negligence could be argued on multiple factors.

what was the weather report at the time of leaving? What was the state of the plane? Did the pilot have a commercial license and qualified to take passengers?

Negligence in law is defined as

 the defendant owed them a duty of care;  the defendant was in breach of that duty; the breach of duty caused damage and;

the damage was not too remote.

Clearly there could be a case. As the agent arranged the flight, and the agent was employed by Nantes, there could be 1,2 or 3 defendants. 

Put it like this, if you have agreed to buy something, and the company you are purchasing the product from are still moving the product around and they subsequently damage it, would you pay for it?

5 hours ago, Wolfie20 said:

How can the agent be acting on behalf of Nantes when Sala was no longer their player. Had the flight been arranged to take the player to Cardiff to sign the contract then i could understand but from what I've read Sala (as a Cardiff player) had gone back to say his goodbyes with transport arranged by his agent.

Whatever the outcome, it's a really sad story but far too soon after the accident to be talking about money.

The article mentioned earlier in the post shed some light on how this transfer came about....it was the agent who approached Nantes and the player. The agent represented Nantes throughout and was the one who organised the plane, directly with the pilot. 

If there was anything ‘reckless’ about the plane or pilot, there is a potential breach of duty of care to the player and possibly Cardiff.  It would then need to be decided where the responsibility sits, the pilot, the agent their employer (Nantes)  or a combination. 

Sorry situation, but really you have to question Nantes’ motives. They have threatened legal action before the contractual payment deadline, which in business terms is very strange. 

On the outside it looks quite simple (discounting foul play) Cardiff and Sala signed the contract. Cardiff need to pay the agreed amount and should have their own insurance to cover the financial loss, as recompense. 

However it transpires the agent, who was acting on behalf of Nantes, is the one who booked the plane. This could leave the agent and ultimately Nantes open to a civil suit for damages from both Cardiff and the family in light of the initial  observations of the plane, and depending on the outcome of the crash investigation. 

Old people out during rush hour. Go back to bed!!

And clogging up the shopping aisles at weekends and lunchtimes.