NottsRam77

14 hours ago, cstand said:

Peter Schiff is famous for predicting the 2008 financial crash.

 

Yes and surprisingly to many he shares the notion like every bitcoiner that the monetary system we exist in is broken and failing people across the world

The only difference between peter and hardened bitcoiner like myself is that he believes gold is the answer to the fiat problem we have. 
 

100% at one with him on everything, just not his answer to the problem 

although totally behind him that the problem started when we moved off the gold standard 

13 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

The second statement is true

The first statement...well, also true but that's not always a good thing is it? The two examples I gave of the US and German governments choosing to sell in huge quantities have both negatively impacted the short term price. Seems a flaw in the  plan non?

And I'm not being "anti-bitcoin" in saying so, I think the idea of a currency that no one controls is a good thing, just saying that we're already seeing governments experimenting with how they can manipulate the price

To be fair - who wouldn't? If I had millions of $ of BTC and I could sell it today at $60k knowing that it would artificially force the price down for a littel but then I would. Then in a few days, spend the money I made buying it all back up again at $50k, knowing that the price was then going to rise as a result (because as you've said many times - it's deflationary and designed to increase in value). Almost the dictionary definition of a safe bet

I dunno - happy to have someone explain if I'm getting this fundamentally wrong? I have had a pint 😂

Agree theres a lot of uncharted territory ahead of us, governments owning btc, etfs , pension pots, theres going to be lots of peaks and troughs along the way as big whales dump and move the price.. but btcs trajectory has never been a smooth, straight line up. Theres always been peaks and troughs maybe they'll be more pronounced or sudden?

but i mean,  I don't by any investment .. be in gold, stocks and shares, bitcoin for the short term… im not a trader. When i buy i buy to invest for the long term so what it does on the shorter time frames doesn’t concern me at all .. assuming i believe in the basic fundamentals  of the asset im buying etc etc

49 minutes ago, cstand said:

Peter Schiff already spotted this a few days ago.
https://m.economictimes.com/markets/expert-view/how-hedge-funds-are-affecting-bitcoin-price/amp_articleshow/111184041.cms

Peter schiff is famous for his anti bitcoin agenda  

5 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

I see the German government have been selling off a huge amount of their BTC holdings, which seems to be adding to the downward trajectory of the price

As with the Feds returning a huge chunk to coinbase the other week, it feels like unethical to have governments (or any other whale) able to cause short term price manipulations by mass selling.

Are there any regulations in place to stop this? 

With the Mt Gox returns starting too, it feels like the price volatility is not going to be over for quite a while

No bitcoin is its own thing no one person or entity controls it .. so no regulation 

anyone can buy and own it  

Difficulty level dropped by 5%
 

set to drop by Another whopping 11% on the 20th july

bottom may … (caveat outside factors permitting) be in 🤷

On 04/07/2024 at 14:58, cstand said:

Just scooped a little up at 56k … just cos

difficulty level set to drop by 5-6% might give the miners a little head room

and stabilise the price while miners work out what fair value is for their btc

all part of the process 

Anyone else going to cardiff to see catfish?

cant freaking wait 

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

Is it "greed"?

Inflation is a lot more complicated than just costs vs price though. Supply and demand for example  - but I get your point.

We may stray into politics, but under capitalism if someone can increase their profit margin then they will. That's the rules. Something costing less to make/provide will very rarely result in the price going down, if demand is high.

Although BTC is designed to be deflationery it remains to be seen how the economics of supply and demand will work out if BTC ends up being the new transactional currency. Given that we've never had a modern society run on a deflationary finite currency before, it could get interesting!

Tbf … it could quite easily be greed lol

The word is debt 

the great race to the bottom, as long as your not last your winning … kinda .. what a way to live lol

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

Correct - traditional monetary systems aren't "designed" to keep the average joe poor, but they are exploited by those in power to make sure that happens.

BTC on the other hand is specifically "designed" to (in theory) not let that happen. Brilliant if it works, but even in the past 12 months we've seen the powerful finance corporations like Black Rock  move in and start to hoover up as much BTC as they possibly can - hence my concern that this was not part of Satoshis model. He designed it to be a decentralized secure currency that was supposed to be resistant to manipulation in the way that traditional currencies are not.

Mass institutionalised investors getting involved, essentially  because they are chasing the same long term profits that the average joe is, could become very dangerous as it ties up the fortunes of BTC with the wider financial market and therefore will not be quite so immune to manipulation as the BTC  model envisaged. For example they could exit all their bitcoin - causing the price to drop, then buy it all up again at a much cheaper price. Rinse and repeat

Not saying that will happen but if I were a regular holder of BTC that's probably the thing I'd be most concerned about.

Agree re institutional investment / manipulation being a concern… on the flip side it brings more money, more validity and more publicity to the space so its a double edged sword in my opinion

re keeping us poor.

Genuine question 

have you ever stopped and wondered why we have inflation and are told to expect everything to go up in price over time and not down.

i mean technology is forever improving and we’re able to do things way more  efficiently than 10 , 20 ,30 years ago

so say in retail and v leymans example..instead of having lines of cashiers on min wage we now have lines of automated scanning machines with 1 guy over seeing 20 checkouts.. one lot of min wage

but ur shopping is more expensive than it was 2,3,4,5 years ago

similarly this kinda thing would be mirrored across the whole production line from Field to shelf… more machines , less people faster , cheaper, more efficient 

so if were able to produce things more efficiently why do they keep going up in price?

because deflation would cause a 2008 style financial crash 

becuase the whole system is built on ………..

prize for the missing word lol

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

Well, not exactly. You've constantly preached about the virtues of Bitcoin v the traditional monetary system (which, I'm not sure is actually "designed" to keep the average Jo poor). Which is far enough. It's something you seem to feel quite strongly about. I really don't have a problem with that (hence the smiley face).

The only thing I do have a problem with is saying "iv" instead of "I've", "u" instead of "you" and "uv" instead of "you've". 😀😀 (two smiley faces in case you think I'm being remotely serious).

Im sure you’ll get over it 😉 lol

35 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Honestly I'd say no he isn't (I appreciate the smiley but behind the question is a hint of truth). The reality is that people like me and you are looking at the posts and wondering if we're missing the next boat to a richer future or if bitcoin will crash and burn. 

If it crashes we will be saying, I'm glad I didn't get pulled in with the hype. Those investors who went in with eyes open hopefully will say, I took a chance and it didn't pay off. Those who ponied up thinking it's a guaranteed return will be learning fast. 

It's all down to your tolerance of risk and your perception of it. I perceive it as more risk than I can afford right now. But reading posts from people with money in bitcoin, it does make me think, what if?

Really Good balanced post 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

its all down to personal situstion, risk tolerance and time scale 

As has been pointed out through this thread, dont ever take the word of some off a football forum or any other platform without doing your own research. 
its actually fascinating in itself the way money works and how its supposed to work. 
but anyway i digress 

3 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Wait, what? Isn’t that what you’ve been trying to do all along? 😀

No iv been discussing why financial system is broken and designed to keep us the average jo poor and how bitcoin offers people a chance to break/ escape that system.. and how and why it does that

If u think im convincing then uv answered the above questions lol  

On 25/06/2024 at 11:18, Stive Pesley said:

This is one of the reasons why I struggle to understand why people have such blind faith in BTC being a long term safe bet

These tweak mechanisms like the 4 year halving and the 14 day difficulty level tweaking are designed to somehow try and stabilise things, but no one knows what will happen long term

After another 4 halvings, there will be so few coins left to mine that (under current conditions) no amount of tweaking of the block difficulty is going to make it profitable to mine coins. So there are all sorts of proposals and predictions about introducing transaction fees to reward miners for adding blocks to the chain rather than mining coins - but it's all theory right now. Or mining methods might change to be more efficient. Or they might come up with some other new tweaking mechanisms. No one really has any idea how this will play out. It's all happening on the fly, with no precedent

So how anyone can say with any certainty that BTC is a safe investment, is beyond me

 

Ok its not as hot and i can be arsed now lol

Obviously its up to u where u put ur money and bitcoin isnt for everyone and no one should try to convince u otherwise.

to answer your concerns…. If theres fewer coins then they will be selling at a higher price assuming the demand for bitcoin stays at the same level. Thats simply supply vs demand.
So in theory maybe theres a day where the price of a satoshi is worth one cent and people arnt accumulating in bitcoin but indeed measuring their stash in sats.

your concern about mining efficiency. I went to a speech by jack mallors who described this brilliantly and better than i will but i will try.

when satoshi created bitcoin.. he also created his own time. 
no one , no matter how powerful a computer they have can mine more bitcoin per day than the program allows.

no one person, no group of people , no institution can create a super computer that can move time forward and pull out all the bitcoin.

that bitcoin outstanding is programmed into time and no one can change that.

if fast better quicker miners come out then the difficulty level will increase and the less powerful miners will become reduntant.

Gold is stuck in the ground and we could pull out the last nugget tomorrow or mine it for the next 1000 years at a quicker rate as mining technology improves  ….bitcoin is stuck in time… heck the future and no one can touch it

to me thats sodding genius.

9 hours ago, Topram said:

Ex Rotherham mentions incoming  

Meltdowns from certain quarters incoming 😂

Great posts fellas @Stive Pesley, @Comrade 86

9 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

I think the thread has run its useful life mate. 

Its only just began 🤪😂🤓

Joking .. Agree 

On 25/06/2024 at 11:18, Stive Pesley said:

This is one of the reasons why I struggle to understand why people have such blind faith in BTC being a long term safe bet

These tweak mechanisms like the 4 year halving and the 14 day difficulty level tweaking are designed to somehow try and stabilise things, but no one knows what will happen long term

After another 4 halvings, there will be so few coins left to mine that (under current conditions) no amount of tweaking of the block difficulty is going to make it profitable to mine coins. So there are all sorts of proposals and predictions about introducing transaction fees to reward miners for adding blocks to the chain rather than mining coins - but it's all theory right now. Or mining methods might change to be more efficient. Or they might come up with some other new tweaking mechanisms. No one really has any idea how this will play out. It's all happening on the fly, with no precedent

So how anyone can say with any certainty that BTC is a safe investment, is beyond me

 

Theres so so much to pull apart here but its too hot and i cant be arsed 😂
 

2 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

Looking at the whole cause and effect thing, the German government has decided to offload and that's always going to cause concern, firstly, due to the volumes and secondly, because folk assume governments know what they're on about. A dangerous school of thought these days!

Also, the whole Mt. Gox palaver has impacted things too, though I did wonder whether that might not actually bolster the price rather than the opposite. Investors not being left in the lurch should surely breed greater confidence in the crypto sector, not less, but perhaps the Germany thing has outweighed the Mt.Gox thing and assuming any losses are linked to the latter is flawed thinking. Really hard to tell. I also don't recall banks shelling out to those they hurt, rather they took more to pay for their idiocy, greed and recklessness.

Likewise, not sure if you've seen the Trump BS. Christ that man's a snake. No conflict of interests there then! I do wonder whether diminished confidence in Trump to do what he said he would is also a factor. I'd not trust him further than I could spit. Sleepy Joe now also performing a U-turn allegedly, though going in the opposite direction. If you ever wanted conclusive proof that neither has any idea what they're doing, this is it.

As for the immediate future, I'm now thinking that something around £46k might be the magic number. Hard to believe that Blackrock, Saylor and the like are not going to step in at some point as their new funds will be dead in the water and all public trust shot to pieces were they not to.

Also, the last dip to that level (£46K) saw prices rally to an ATH. I understand your reticence to mess with what looks to be a solid long term investment, but I'd argue trading is actually less risky, though the demands on your time and availability mean it's not for everyone.

Agree 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

omg trump ….i dont trust or believe a single word that comes out of that mans mouth lol
 

Believe me if i had any confidence in my ability to trade it i would in a heartbeat…. Love to be able to do it

But its safer that i dont for my own sake and sanity 🤪

Buying the dip is always a sensib

1 hour ago, Comrade 86 said:

BTC down £4.5K since I urged caution a week back, £2.5k over the following 7 days and another £2k today. I think it's likely approaching a new support level, but irrespective of whether it does or not, had anyone considering buying BTC this time last week waited, as I suggested they should (see below), they would already be able to buy 8% more coins than had they not. Some might consider that insignificant, but I certainly don't! 

As it is, the next 24 to 48 hours now seems quite critical. If you'd bought at £7k to £15K you'd obviously not be panicking yet, but new investors who bought at the recent highs will definitely be getting a tad twitchy and that could exacerbate the downslide. A studious watching brief is advised!

FWIW, I'll be diving back onboard at some point as to my mind this is simply balancing and needs to happen before we see another proper bear run. Institutional investors now stand to lose too much, especially those with leveraged positions and they will have to step in at some point. For my part, I still fully believe in BTC as a project and an investment, but I do feel that comments that were questioned or disregarded, have now been vindicated.

Lets examine some facts vs opinions: a 5 coin stash if sold last Tuesday would have netted @£263,000.00. The same amount of coins would cost a whopping £24,000.00 less at time of writing. More to the point, reinvested, the same buyer would now have over 5.5 coins in his or her wallet without investing a single penny of additional savings. That's half a coin, or @£24k for a week's 'work' and all achieved in a bearish market. Seems like nice apples to me  🫢 

 

DYOR

Well played… miner capitulation has always been part of the bull market cycle and seems this one is no different as weak inefficient miners  switch off.

Id say theres never a bad time to buy bitcoin, for reasons i have rammed down everyones throat 😂… but no ones going to turn their nose up at 8% more coins for ur money👏🏻👏🏻🥇

im not brave or good enough to trade it though, cos u never know bitcoin has a habbit of leaving people behind and i dont want to run the risk of having to buy back higher

 I hodle, hold and buy when i can afford to without putting myself under pressure to find money when theres a dip. If i do buy a dip its by coincidence. 
 

Agree re hitting support. Last few months the 60k ish mark has proved to be too deep for the bears to push us through so see what happens

might be worth noting too in 10 days theres due a circa 5% drop in difficulty level.. this may well cause some miners to come back on line and help stabilise price

either way im not worried, bitcoin can go up, down or sideways,

long term here i know im winning 😎

2 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

Kyle Walker who plays for a side who regularly steamroller teams 3 and 4 nil, saying it's unrealistic for people to expect them to steamroller teams 3 and 4 nil. 
 

 

One of those teams has pep in charge .. the other most certainly doesnt 

5 hours ago, Returning ram said:

Not really, ATE is way down the list, source of funds is much higher.

Hmmm have to respectfully agree to disagree on that one 👍

23 hours ago, Returning ram said:

I understand Crypto, I work with it. I said one of the main selling points was its perceived anonymity at the time, which it was, for criminal activity. You will of course know that even now, it's the main payment type on the dark web.
 

My surprise was that it's remains as popular despite a lot of regulatory focus around it and the exchanges that are the bridge between turning the currency into cash. I know what people see as benefits, once again not my point, I don't need a salesman pitch to tell me, I can see the numbers for myself, I just said in my opinion I was surprised it hasn't impacted it more.

Iv no problem with regulatory compliance from exchanges. 
 

its all to do with making sure taxes are paid on realised profits… fair enough to me 🤷

23 hours ago, Wolfie said:

You really don’t seem to understand that the inflation figures are an average of everything over a rolling 12 months period.

Big energy rises were reflected in last years high inflation but the reductions since are helping pull it down again. 

I do actually mate,

Im talking about how inflation has effected me and my wage and savings buying power. Who says inflation has to be measured annually? The governement ? Colour me Shocked.

i deal in longer time frames, which is why u wont  see me crying about bitcoin being volatile week to week , month to month .. im looking at inflation , my money and bitcoin over the big picture and what bitcoin does through its cycles 

inflation will erode into my moneys purchasing power and bitcoin will go up against fiat because fiat is constantly being debased

both statements are true 

Anything else is just noise quite frankly

On 16/06/2024 at 11:31, Day said:

If the FCA are reading, I am not a financial advisor, this is just my own personal view.

Never listen to people on the internet what to do with your money, especially through social media/YouTube.

Too many shills and influencers out there with only one interest in mind, their own. Ask yourselves why someone on X would want to make you rich, why this attractive woman on Instagram in lingerie is promoting a Crypto coin.

Investing your hard earned money correctly is one of the biggest challenges we all face, do your own research then if it fails or returns you a lot of money, that is on you.

Memecoin and shitcoin shillers are a poison of the crypto space hence why its always key to do ur own research / dont by s***/meme coins 🤷‍♂️lol

13 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

I haven't said that history means nothing either, that's your assertion, not mine, indeed I used historical trends to try and explain the thinking behind the notion that BTC might be bought for considerably less than than the current figures in the not too distant future. You are so quick to jump on anyone whose opinion does not precisely mirror yours, that you can't even read what they've actually said. 

But hey, best of luck 

For what its worth i think the current levels will represent the next cycles low.

based purely on chart data .. but again thats history related and speculating