We are now accepting mediocrity

[Shaftesbury st]

zzzzZZZZZ

ZZZZzzzzzz

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Just what I'm talking about !!!!

[Shaftesbury st]

This thread will be forgotten if we win tomorrow. So how about you all go and "turn that frown upside down", and concentrate on that game?!?!

It really isn't about tomorrow though, yes we will be deliriously happy but over the season it's not anywhere near what we deserve

[blackNwhites]

Just what I'm talking about !!!!

Wasn't directed at you exactly, just the whole damned conversation.

[networker1884]

It really isn't about tomorrow though, yes we will be deliriously happy but over the season it's not anywhere near what we deserve

Oh yeah, I forgot that debating it in a forum is going to change things.

[Pearson]

The uncomfortable fact is that Clough doesn't possess the leadership, tactical nouse and motivational capacties for us to make significant progress in the NPC. 162 games in, we aren't going to see anything new from Clough. He may be the guy to keep us treading water whilst we adjust to the new financial realities, but I just can't see him taking us above mid table.

But he has my friend, and in spades. It was always going to be a long haul but we will get there. All we lack at present is consistency but that will happen when a couple of key players are in place and our youngsters mature and grow in confidence. Be patient it WILL happen:-))

[networker1884]

The uncomfortable fact is that Clough doesn't possess the leadership, tactical nouse and motivational capacties for us to make significant progress in the NPC. 162 games in, we aren't going to see anything new from Clough. He may be the guy to keep us treading water whilst we adjust to the new financial realities, but I just can't see him taking us above mid table.

But he has my friend, and in spades. It was always going to be a long haul but we will get there. All we lack at present is consistency but that will happen when a couple of key players are in place and our youngsters mature and grow in confidence. Be patient it WILL happen:-))

So he isn't good enough, but he will succeed? What does "But he has my friend, and in Spades" mean?

[Pearson]

So he isn't good enough, but he will succeed? What does "But he has my friend, and in Spades" mean?

It is a reference to leadership etc in the opening line. Did I say he wasn't good enough, nothing could be further from the truth!

[Guest]

You brought the spend up, I was pointing out I didn't know where we stood and didn't see what you point was.

As regards to Southampton, as you said in another post, do your research, how many we're sold pre administration ???

Not sure and it is completely irrelevant to the point. Southampton are top of our table despite have a negative net spend of millions on transfer fees.

[Guest]

You brought the spend up, I was pointing out I didn't know where we stood and didn't see what you point was.

As regards to Southampton, as you said in another post, do your research, how many we're sold pre administration ???

Not sure and it is completely irrelevant to the point. Southampton are top of our table despite have a negative net spend of millions on transfer fees.

[Asanovic]

I spoke to someone recently who sees Glick socially and Glick told him that they did not want to be promoted to the PL. The reason given was that it cost them £20 million last time in crap players and paying off contracts. If this is true then it leaves me scratching my head as to the purpose of them being here.

Possibly make money from their Mall ?

Develop players from the academy and sell on for a profit ?

It would explain the lack of passion from the players in games such as saturday. If there is no drive to be promoted then from here on in then the remaining games this season are just dead rubbers ( with the exception of tomorrow obviously). They should be honest with fans and sell season tickets that provide a refund for all the remaining games each season once we achieve 50 points.

One final thing, those happy fans who keep reminding us that its a long job and that we are building a team can explain to me why we were prepared to sell Bailey to the first team who made a bid for him. Isn't he just the sort of player you claim we are building a team with ?

COYR's for tomorrow, Goodbye Glick forever

Do you honestly believe that anyone would invest in a club at this level without the ambition of getting them in to the Premiership? Perhaps what he said was taken out of context.

[Woodypecker]

plethora....and the longevity of current disappointments at DCFC might persist as long as our fond memory of the esteemed Mr Richards 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

[Abu Derby]

Exactly 20 YEARS ago, we purchased Marco Gabbiadini and Paul Kitson for a combined fee of £2.2 million. We were in the second division at the time, and were owned by a Derby County supporter who happened to have quite a lot of money - Lionel Pickering.

Whether or not it was money wisely invested is immaterial. Lionel reasoned that to speculate is to accumulate.

Fast forward to the present time.

Our current owner(s)/investors are also similarly wealthy, if not more so.

The similarity ends there - they are from the USA, where football, or soccer as they prefer to call it, is a minority sport. They can get away with providing next to nothing in the way of investment in the playing staff, by citing the current economical difficulties both in football and in general.

I would like to know if readers of the forum agree with my conclusions to the following questions:

Why did Adam Pearson saddle us with GSE in the first place?

Why do GSE show no signs of providing Clough with the necessary investment in players to enable us to move out of bottom half mediocrity?

Answers: THEY DID NOT AND DO NOT CARE!

£2.2 million? - we can hardly afford to pay £2.2k these days.

It really is a very sad state of affairs.

[Asanovic]

Exactly 20 YEARS ago, we purchased Marco Gabbiadini and Paul Kitson for a combined fee of £2.2 million. We were in the second division at the time, and were owned by a Derby County supporter who happened to have quite a lot of money - Lionel Pickering.

Whether or not it was money wisely invested is immaterial. Lionel reasoned that to speculate is to accumulate.

Fast forward to the present time.

Our current owner(s)/investors are also similarly wealthy, if not more so.

The similarity ends there - they are from the USA, where football, or soccer as they prefer to call it, is a minority sport. They can get away with providing next to nothing in the way of investment in the playing staff, by citing the current economical difficulties both in football and in general.

I would like to know if readers of the forum agree with my conclusions to the following questions:

Why did Adam Pearson saddle us with GSE in the first place?

Why do GSE show no signs of providing Clough with the necessary investment in players to enable us to move out of bottom half mediocrity?

Answers: THEY DID NOT AND DO NOT CARE!

£2.2 million? - we can hardly afford to pay £2.2k these days.

It really is a very sad state of affairs.

I'd argue things are quite alot different - alot of clubs, ours included, have learned the lesson of Portsmouth, Luton, Rangers, Leeds, Bradford...the list goes on.

Football's a different sport now. It'd be totally irresponsbile to have a 'speculate to accumulate' mentality, that's how so many clubs have ended up in the mess they've found themeselves in.

I'm not defending them and I think more money needs to be invested in order for us to be succesful, but at least they're not irresponsible, even if they're not totally interested.

[Abu Derby]

In the very recent past, there are examples of clubs having a modicum of success wherever that particular club has an owner or chairman who are able to class themselves as a true football fan of that particular club.

They were/are desperate for THEIR club to be successful and did everything they could to realise their dream.

Jack Walker. - Blackburn Rovers

Jack Hayward - Wolves

Bill Kenwright - Everton

Peter Coates - Stoke City

Phil Gartside - Bolton Wanderers

Dave Whelan - Wigan

Hew Jenkins - Swansea

Lionel Pickering - Derby

John Madejski - Reading

Nigel Doughty - Forest could also be added to the list.

All of these people have something in common - they care(d) passionately about THEIR clubs.

In my opinion, for what it's worth, we are going nowhere fast with our current owners.

[rammieib]

Brilliant thread with a lot of mixed opinion, but respectful of it all.

As I read it I think we really need to split GSE and Clough apart.

GSE - I have to ask what is in it for them. Bar Glick, as far as I am aware the remaining owners are US based. They just cannot get the same excitement and passion that being in the town, at the ground and at the games will bring. Do we think Jeff Mallet gives a toss if we win or loss. Does coming over for 1 or 2 games a season, all probably on the clubs expenses, actually give him the motivation to say, lets get this club up? i doubt it. We are penny pinching, but certain things annoy me - Glick (and someone else who i don't know), have both got up to date company cars. Why? Are they not happy to have the same car three years running like most people with a company car? Is this the best place for our resources? I just don't see what GSE want to achieve - I think they have realised that promotion doesn't come easily and therefore, have resorted to basically providing a business model which breaks even, or makes a bit of money for GSE.

We say they invested £20 Million - well, yes they bought the club for this, but I bet they won't sell it for anything less than their investment!

Clough - If I could just see what he was trying to achieve on the pitch I could understand it but there seems so many contradictions all the time. Must start well, have we scored yet in the last 15 minutes of a game, strange signings, strange positions of players (I still remember Ben Pringle starting at Crawley at right mid!) etc

I think there are managers out there who do a far better job - Brendan Rogers, Ian Holloway, Paul Lambert, Nigel Adkins, Brian McDermott and I can see more what they are trying to achieve. I can by and large see a style in the way their teams play and I can see some passion. I don't see this in Clough.

FFP - I think this is another example of wool over our eyes. There will always be ways around this, new methods created by the top teams whether that is sponsoring stadiums or paying players from a third party company etc.

As for tomorrow's game, well, it is a case of weighing up how much do I want Clough/GSE out against how much I want Derby to win. I genuinely think its about 50/50. If we were not in so much of a mediocre position, and there was something to play for - either a relegation or promotion fight, I'd probably feel different, but our season is over, and the games are dead rubbers from now on.

Its just sad.

Thanks

[Ramondo]

In the very recent past, there are examples of clubs having a modicum of success wherever that particular club has an owner or chairman who are able to class themselves as a true football fan of that particular club.

They were/are desperate for THEIR club to be successful and did everything they could to realise their dream.

Jack Walker. - Blackburn Rovers

Jack Hayward - Wolves

Bill Kenwright - Everton

Peter Coates - Stoke City

Phil Gartside - Bolton Wanderers

Dave Whelan - Wigan

Hew Jenkins - Swansea

Lionel Pickering - Derby

John Madejski - Reading

Nigel Doughty - Forest could also be added to the list.

All of these people have something in common - they care(d) passionately about THEIR clubs.

In my opinion, for what it's worth, we are going nowhere fast with our current owners.

They do indeed all have alot in common - they have all lost a fortune on their football clubs. Although the one on that list I'm not sure about in Bill Kenwright, not sure how much of his own money he's lost. The rest - millions!

And therein lies the problem with football supporters today. They 'expect' their owners to throw their money down the toilet. And that is excatly what they're doing, the more you spend then the more you lose - and on the odd occasion that you don't, well go and ask Arsenal fans what they think of their spending regime, of the 'ambition' shown by their club. Show me how many premier league clubs aren't losing millions a year. Swansea and Norwich have yet to have had the chance to lose money but inevitably and in the long term they will. Blackpool didn't but they would have done eventually if they'd stayed up. It is a combination of this "well they're doing it so we should too" attitude, Sky money and excessive 'investment' by owners that has ruined the game and caused the problems we see all around now.

You say that Lionel spent £2.2m to speculate to accumulate - however the biggest cost issue for clubs is not transfer fees - it's wages. That wasn't the case back then, the wages have now risen to such extraordinary and obscene levels that the game simply can't sustain it. You speculate in an scenario where you can justifyably expect to accumulate - however all you can expect to accumulate in football are debts and losses. That's simply how it is nowadays - you don't want investment, you want someone to throw their money away for you.

[Gary Teale]

I'm amazed by how many people on here know all about the accounts at all the other clubs and that just about every club loses all this money every year.

[Ramondo]

A quick search on the old tinternet will provide all the profits and loss numbers you need.

[BOB BIGGS]

Brilliant thread with a lot of mixed opinion, but respectful of it all.

As I read it I think we really need to split GSE and Clough apart.

GSE - I have to ask what is in it for them. Bar Glick, as far as I am aware the remaining owners are US based. They just cannot get the same excitement and passion that being in the town, at the ground and at the games will bring. Do we think Jeff Mallet gives a toss if we win or loss. Does coming over for 1 or 2 games a season, all probably on the clubs expenses, actually give him the motivation to say, lets get this club up? i doubt it. We are penny pinching, but certain things annoy me - Glick (and someone else who i don't know), have both got up to date company cars. Why? Are they not happy to have the same car three years running like most people with a company car? Is this the best place for our resources? I just don't see what GSE want to achieve - I think they have realised that promotion doesn't come easily and therefore, have resorted to basically providing a business model which breaks even, or makes a bit of money for GSE.

We say they invested £20 Million - well, yes they bought the club for this, but I bet they won't sell it for anything less than their investment!

Clough - If I could just see what he was trying to achieve on the pitch I could understand it but there seems so many contradictions all the time. Must start well, have we scored yet in the last 15 minutes of a game, strange signings, strange positions of players (I still remember Ben Pringle starting at Crawley at right mid!) etc

I think there are managers out there who do a far better job - Brendan Rogers, Ian Holloway, Paul Lambert, Nigel Adkins, Brian McDermott and I can see more what they are trying to achieve. I can by and large see a style in the way their teams play and I can see some passion. I don't see this in Clough.

FFP - I think this is another example of wool over our eyes. There will always be ways around this, new methods created by the top teams whether that is sponsoring stadiums or paying players from a third party company etc.

As for tomorrow's game, well, it is a case of weighing up how much do I want Clough/GSE out against how much I want Derby to win. I genuinely think its about 50/50. If we were not in so much of a mediocre position, and there was something to play for - either a relegation or promotion fight, I'd probably feel different, but our season is over, and the games are dead rubbers from now on.

Its just sad.

Thanks

I wouldn't argue with a lot there. The reason I'm not for change at the moment is that I believe that the "deal" that' was done with Clough was set out to cover a very long period. That's much too long for most fans and I can appreciate all the frustrations.

I believe he's made some strange decisions. I think he's under significant pressure at times and like anyone under pressure, often picks the wrong option. That said, overall, I think he's done a fairly good job against a background of financial restraint and a difficult working environment.

If I thought we were about to sell the Club to new owners who were going to throw money at it, then I doubt I'd be looking for NC to stay in charge. But who is looking to buy us and spend that money? If I thought there were excellent options such as the managers you mention, who were prepared to come to Derby under the existing circumstances, then it may be the right time to change things. But who are they?

I'd hate to see Clough kicked out and replaced by the likes of Megson, McCarthy, Davies, Bruce [the list goes on]. There's no chance of that anyway because I'm sure they wouldn't come for what we're offering, both in terms of salary and resources to work with.

So, until or unless something significant changes, I'm going with the present set up. I'll enjoy the good days and try to park the bad ones. I think we have some of the best young players we've had at Derby for many years. Can they push us on? I really hope so because there won't be many big money signings at most Championship Clubs and there are never any guarantees anyway . Leicester [and even West Ham to some extent] show that it's not easy to buy your way out.

[inglorious02]

It is the attitude and outlook of the coaching staff that is also holding the club back and frustrating me. We battled back to get a good draw away at Birmingham, we built on that with a decent home win over Blackpool. Everyone (in my opinion) associated with the club should be making noises about how we had an outside chance of getting into the playoffs. Really attack Watford and Forest to get two more wins. Then go for it against Doncaster and at home to Palace. All winnable games. But no. The season is just petering out again with tonight that final match we can get excited about. If we just play people in their proper positions and really go for it, we might still have had something to aim for this season. We sit too deep and play too negatively.