Dangerous Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 playing these kids is ridiculous when there are more experienced pros who could play.and these kids arent better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 playing these kids is ridiculous when there are more experienced pros who could play.and these kids arent better. Everyone is injured...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Cywka and Maguire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Cywka and Maguire? Maguire needed showing after his antics on wednesday that you can't act like a child and still play. There is no excuse for not bringing Cywka, but is he the experieced head that Clough would have brought on to protect a draw? After the Portsmouth debacle last season? Doubtful. Why is everyone so against this, has anyone any evidence that the young lads combined in a negative way to let this late goal in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I see enough kids playing football on the racecourse on a Sunday.mason bennett is not as good as cywka.simple as that.The best players should play.to play doyle is crazy.he is nowhere near good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Mason Bennet has been proving very lively, and Cywka by all accounts didn't have the best night on wednesday against Cardiff so didn't get played today. He'd have been on the bench for me but i'd have started Bennet too. Doyle has clearly been showing enough in training and reserve games to be given a chance, hes worked hard and earned his starting place. Maguire has done bugger all aside from a good sub appearance against Boro which earnt him a start. Doyle got the reward for his hard work. Simple. Like I said, for me Cywka would be on the bench and the fact he isn't is strange to me, but the general decisions today weren't that bad when you take everything into consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Maguire needed showing after his antics on wednesday that you can't act like a child and still play. There is no excuse for not bringing Cywka, but is he the experieced head that Clough would have brought on to protect a draw? After the Portsmouth debacle last season? Doubtful. Why is everyone so against this, has anyone any evidence that the young lads combined in a negative way to let this late goal in? sorry alex but today when questioned about doyle and obrien losing the ball in the run up to the goal, clough said 10-15 seconds had passed not their fault, why didn't he say the same about cywka and forget about the incident which in my mind must still play a part in why he isn't choosing a good midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Cywka has been crap for about a year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Mason Bennet has been proving very lively, and Cywka by all accounts didn't have the best night on wednesday against Cardiff so didn't get played today. He'd have been on the bench for me but i'd have started Bennet too. Doyle has clearly been showing enough in training and reserve games to be given a chance, hes worked hard and earned his starting place. Maguire has done bugger all aside from a good sub appearance against Boro which earnt him a start. Doyle got the reward for his hard work. Simple. Like I said, for me Cywka would be on the bench and the fact he isn't is strange to me, but the general decisions today weren't that bad when you take everything into consideration. I am sorry but doyle is cack alex, he has been poor for the first team and reserve team and training is different to a match day. Cywka at least had a go on wednesday night, at one point took on 4 players and earned a free kick no one else had that enthusiasm or skill apart from him and mason bennett, fact is everyone was poor wednesday and it is very rare a single player can win a game on his own when 2-0 down. Maguire played really well against portsmouth and was obviously frustrated on wednesday, he showed passion which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The general decisions today coat us the game and were extremely poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NothernRam Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 How old is Hughes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 How old is Hughes? 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Mason isn't good enough yet, and bringing another 16 year old on at 2-2 away from home with the midfield already over-run is probably one of the worst decisions I've ever seen in football. At that point we had 5 teenagers on the pitch. I'm all for blooding youngsters but you just can't throw them all in together like that. Did any of them directly cost us the game? No, but I don't think Will Hughes touched the ball and looked like a rabbit in headlights. Not his fault, just an apalling decision to bring him on at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Mason Bennet has been proving very lively, and Cywka by all accounts didn't have the best night on wednesday against Cardiff so didn't get played today. He'd have been on the bench for me but i'd have started Bennet too. Doyle has clearly been showing enough in training and reserve games to be given a chance, hes worked hard and earned his starting place. Maguire has done bugger all aside from a good sub appearance against Boro which earnt him a start. Doyle got the reward for his hard work. Simple. Like I said, for me Cywka would be on the bench and the fact he isn't is strange to me, but the general decisions today weren't that bad when you take everything into consideration. Maguire probably done more in that sub appearance against Boro than Doyle has ever done playing for Derby County, i cant ever remember him having a really good performance. I couldnt give a f*ck if Maguire never turned up to training, if he's better and more useful on matchdays than someone else he should play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 sorry alex but today when questioned about doyle and obrien losing the ball in the run up to the goal, clough said 10-15 seconds had passed not their fault, why didn't he say the same about cywka and forget about the incident which in my mind must still play a part in why he isn't choosing a good midfielder. 15 seconds is time enough to deal with an attack, if you lose the ball as Cywka did and give them a chance on a plate then i'd be annoyed too, if you lose the ball in general than you should be forgiven for it, if players are scared to make a mistake it's not going to lead to a very confident side is it. I am sorry but doyle is cack alex, he has been poor for the first team and reserve team and training is different to a match day. Cywka at least had a go on wednesday night, at one point took on 4 players and earned a free kick no one else had that enthusiasm or skill apart from him and mason bennett, fact is everyone was poor wednesday and it is very rare a single player can win a game on his own when 2-0 down. Maguire played really well against portsmouth and was obviously frustrated on wednesday, he showed passion which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The general decisions today coat us the game and were extremely poor. The point is, Doyle works his arse off in training and reserve games, as well as performing well for his country when called upon. He has worked hard and deserves his place. Maguire doesn't do anything against Cardiff, is known to have been doing bugger all in training and reserve games up until the Boro game, and after being petulant is dropped. Besides which, Clough said that both were in his match-day squad and if they were allowed the same subs as last season they'd be on the bench. I'm not sure why Cywka wasn't on the bench, but he Clough I think said that both of the more experienced forwards didn't leave much for Bennet to work with on wedneday, and so were dropped for this game presumably. Maguire probably done more in that sub appearance against Boro than Doyle has ever done playing for Derby County, i cant ever remember him having a really good performance. I couldnt give a f*ck if Maguire never turned up to training, if he's better and more useful on matchdays than someone else he should play. So you would reward doing nothing in training and reserve games with a start, while the lads who put their all in get nothing? Doesn't send out a very good message does it. Doyle has worked hard and so gets his chance, he has done ok in some of the games hes played, I can't remember which game it was but he has atleast one assist to his name where he created a goal, so he's not a poor player. Just needs some loan time. Without the injury crisis he wouldn't be in the squad, but with it i'm sure they'll have told the players to work to fill the places and he'll have been putting a shift in, thereby earning a start. A message to others who might not be better players but aren't working hard enough perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Doyle won't win us a game Maguire might If Maguire has got an attitude problem, sell him, or get him out on loan. Or explain that the reason he's not picked is because he's a troublemaker. If anyone genuinely thinks the squad picked yesterday was the best at our disposal to win the game, then I find that hard to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Doyle won't win us a game Maguire might If Maguire has got an attitude problem, sell him, or get him out on loan. Or explain that the reason he's not picked is because he's a troublemaker. If anyone genuinely thinks the squad picked yesterday was the best at our disposal to win the game, then I find that hard to believe. Doyle has had good moments, who's to say he wouldn't? And Maguire did nothing on Wednesday, gave no help to Bennet accoring to Clough. No wonder he was dropped. Besides, why would you loan out or sell someone in an injury crisis? That's just not a smart idea. Better to drop him for a game and hope he learns his lesson when he sees who has taken his place. Plus as i've said before, Clough said they would've been on the bench had there not been the 7 to 5 subs rule this summer (he didn't seem happy about it) I think the squad yesterday was competitive enough to win the match, you just seem a little irked that Pearson has been let go. Maguire deserved to be dropped, Cywka I would have included but Clough thought Bennet was a better pick it seems. And after all his work these last few games, i'd agree, to a certain extent. Though Cywka does offer something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Doyle has had good moments, who's to say he wouldn't? And Maguire did nothing on Wednesday, gave no help to Bennet accoring to Clough. No wonder he was dropped. Besides, why would you loan out or sell someone in an injury crisis? That's just not a smart idea. Better to drop him for a game and hope he learns his lesson when he sees who has taken his place. Plus as i've said before, Clough said they would've been on the bench had there not been the 7 to 5 subs rule this summer (he didn't seem happy about it) I think the squad yesterday was competitive enough to win the match, you just seem a little irked that Pearson has been let go. Maguire deserved to be dropped, Cywka I would have included but Clough thought Bennet was a better pick it seems. And after all his work these last few games, i'd agree, to a certain extent. Though Cywka does offer something different. On the first point, he may be able to, but he's done absolutely nothing since being here (apart from one good performance away at Preston, from memory) to suggest he will be able to influence a game. On the second point - that's exactly what we did with Pearson, so I agree. But if he is putting in such a lack of effort, and acting like such a child (the view of many on this forum - my judgement is reserved), then surely he's better off out the way. On the third point - not just Bennett, but Hughes and Ball as well. It doesn't seem to make any sense. So 'to a certain extent', would you say that a child who hasn't played at this level could contribute towards a positive result more than Cwyka? Because that's what Clough thought. I never usually criticse the things he does and I'm generally behind what we're trying to do long term, but I do feel more than a little conned out of the money I spent going yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 15 seconds is time enough to deal with an attack, if you lose the ball as Cywka did and give them a chance on a plate then i'd be annoyed too, if you lose the ball in general than you should be forgiven for it, if players are scared to make a mistake it's not going to lead to a very confident side is it. The point is, Doyle works his arse off in training and reserve games, as well as performing well for his country when called upon. He has worked hard and deserves his place. Maguire doesn't do anything against Cardiff, is known to have been doing bugger all in training and reserve games up until the Boro game, and after being petulant is dropped. Besides which, Clough said that both were in his match-day squad and if they were allowed the same subs as last season they'd be on the bench. I'm not sure why Cywka wasn't on the bench, but he Clough I think said that both of the more experienced forwards didn't leave much for Bennet to work with on wedneday, and so were dropped for this game presumably. So you would reward doing nothing in training and reserve games with a start, while the lads who put their all in get nothing? Doesn't send out a very good message does it. Doyle has worked hard and so gets his chance, he has done ok in some of the games hes played, I can't remember which game it was but he has atleast one assist to his name where he created a goal, so he's not a poor player. Just needs some loan time. Without the injury crisis he wouldn't be in the squad, but with it i'm sure they'll have told the players to work to fill the places and he'll have been putting a shift in, thereby earning a start. A message to others who might not be better players but aren't working hard enough perhaps? cywka didn't give them a chance on a plate though, maguire is more effective than the hughes lad and is known to have hot and cold days, he scored a goal against portsmouth and had a nightmare against cardiff which the entire squad did. Clough is petulant towards players in a way like that and i don't think that is good enough. Doyle has done nothing when playing for us apart from the game against preston, it's time he left as he is one of the worst players i have seen in a rams shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 On the first point, he may be able to, but he's done absolutely nothing since being here (apart from one good performance away at Preston, from memory) to suggest he will be able to influence a game. On the second point - that's exactly what we did with Pearson, so I agree. But if he is putting in such a lack of effort, and acting like such a child (the view of many on this forum - my judgement is reserved), then surely he's better off out the way. On the third point - not just Bennett, but Hughes and Ball as well. It doesn't seem to make any sense. So 'to a certain extent', would you say that a child who hasn't played at this level could contribute towards a positive result more than Cwyka? Because that's what Clough thought. I never usually criticse the things he does and I'm generally behind what we're trying to do long term, but I do feel more than a little conned out of the money I spent going yesterday. He also created one our only worked goal against Swansea last season, and for the reserves hes looked very good. He's also a utility player, he can play in one of about 5 positions. What he needs to do is be fixed down to one position, in fairness to him he's a striker being told to play wide right, which isn't his game. Hes worked hard and deserved a shot in the first team, unfortunately he didn't have an impact by the sounds of it, but all players have poor games. Perhaps they think it's something that needs to be sorted by the club? If you loan a player out it looks like you're just getting rid of the problem and waiting for someone else to come in for him. Wheras Maguire can probably be dealt with and his attitude changed by Clough this month while there are injuries. Pearson was a different case, he has no future at the club (or atleast doesn't look like he has) and has openly asked for a move. So he was allowed one. I suspect Clough thought that Cywka hadn't made enough of an impact against Cardiff, and he's in the matchday squad atleast so he's clearly still wanted. My view on it is that he chose the bench to fit what he might need. Lagdzins is clearly needed, as is Kilbane for defence. Bennet has performed better than Maguire and Cywka, and so is included. Ball is the long ball option, if you need to punp the ball forward for the end of the game we've got no-one to hold it up, so he's included. Hughes is there I am guessing as he is not prepared to use Cywka or Maguire as midfielders. If we had an injury we'd need a midfielder in there, and Hughes is the next best man to play in there at the moment I presume. That is my explanation of it anyway. I realise you're not someone to just bash Clough or whomever as I still read these pages and know you're not like Bris Vegas etc (Sorry Bris, but you are one for the needless attacks) but I don't think there's that much of an issue here. People were saying "If they're good enough, they're old enough" when things were going well. We lose a result where the lads don't really do anything wrong and people suddenly aren't happy. We were beaten by a great finish, that's all. Shackell, our most experienced defender and best performer so far deserves the criticism, he was the one making a stuipd mistake for their second. (Not that i'm going to have a go at him having seen how good hes been for us, but you see my point) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 cywka didn't give them a chance on a plate though, maguire is more effective than the hughes lad and is known to have hot and cold days, he scored a goal against portsmouth and had a nightmare against cardiff which the entire squad did. Clough is petulant towards players in a way like that and i don't think that is good enough. Doyle has done nothing when playing for us apart from the game against preston, it's time he left as he is one of the worst players i have seen in a rams shirt. He did against Portsmouth. Maguire can't play midfield though and has been poor, petulant, and in generally lazy for most of his time here. Maguire is a hot and cold player yes, but there is a difference between having a poor game with effort and not trying enough. I agree that Clough picks favourites at times, but I can see why he went with the people he did. My own worry was that we went with Buxton at RB when Kilbane would have been my choice, but Buxton didn't have a bad game so I can't moan. Doyle has had three good games (or atleast decent) out of the five or so i've seen of him, and looks good for Reserves and U21 duty. He deserved a start through his work, but unfortunately didn't take his chance. I doubt he'll be in the match-day sqyad next time round if we have people back, but he earned his chance through hard work. I can't be-grudge him that. He doesn't need getting rid of, he has talent, but I do think he needs to be trained in one select position from now on and be loaned out for some constant first-team match experience when we have enough players back. That'll do him the world of good, not coming in half match-fit due to a lack of reserve games. That won't have helped him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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