uttoxram75 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Next week, MP's will vote on the Coalition government's health reform plans. Despite a period of consultation and a few minor changes, the new Bill will take away the Governments duty to provide NHS services. This will mean that the Health Secretary will be able to wash his hands of responsibility if the private companies (who will take over huge chunks of the NHS), do not deliver services that people need. Unless Lib Dem and Labour MP's suddenly find the courage to vote against this then we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the NHS. I hope our Great Grandads and Grandads, who demanded, fought for and won, a chance for their families to receive medical treatment based on need, not wealth, are proud of us for allowing this to happen. If you care enough to be bothered to do something about it you could start here...... An email to your MP asking him or her to vote against will cost you nowt. http://38degrees.org.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 education is going a similar way unfortunately, as is everything, the aim of the coalition is to have private influence in ever sector of public service except the army. It is a joke, they will later claim when it all goes south that they had no control of this, because they themselves are responsible. We all want better services however we all want a guarantee that services will be maintained to a certain standard. The nhs is having to make massive cutbacks and savings everywhere they can find them believe me i know a number of people on the front line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 There definitely has to be reforms in the current NHS but I don't think complete privatisation is the answer. Obviously it's a very difficult subject but there definitely needs to be more responsibility on ourselves to look after our health. Of course even the healthiest people can get sick and of course they need our help, but NHS should not be universal in my opinion, it needs to be earned and respected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derbydan Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 All the MP's have the chance to vote so whether it is the idea of a few crack pots is irrelevent. Maybe it might wake up the self entitlement brigade in to realising how lucky we are in this county, people may start to care and fight for what they believe in for a change. What are the positions of the other parties on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 There definitely has to be reforms in the current NHS but I don't think complete privatisation is the answer. Obviously it's a very difficult subject but there definitely needs to be more responsibility on ourselves to look after our health. Of course even the healthiest people can get sick and of course they need our help, but NHS should not be universal in my opinion, it needs to be earned and respected. The thing is Edin, there's not many left who can remember the days before the NHS. Listening to tales from my grandparents when I was growing up, the thing that stuck in my mind was the fear of having to pay for the Doctor. I did'nt understand what they were on about for years as its impossible for anyone born after 1945 to realise what life was like before the National Health Service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 The thing is Edin, there's not many left who can remember the days before the NHS. Listening to tales from my grandparents when I was growing up, the thing that stuck in my mind was the fear of having to pay for the Doctor. I did'nt understand what they were on about for years as its impossible for anyone born after 1945 to realise what life was like before the National Health Service. Our society in general encourages irresponsible behavior. A universal NHS service for all does exactly that. I mean obviously you would have people that have looked after themselves, led a good life, but have little money and under privatization these people might not be able to afford care. This is clearly unacceptable, but I also don't think people that don't deserve care should be given it. If people abuse their bodies over and over again why do they deserve an NHS that will always try to bail them out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Our society in general encourages irresponsible behavior. A universal NHS service for all does exactly that. I mean obviously you would have people that have looked after themselves, led a good life, but have little money and under privatization these people might not be able to afford care. This is clearly unacceptable, but I also don't think people that don't deserve care should be given it. If people abuse their bodies over and over again why do they deserve an NHS that will always try to bail them out? Research? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the464444 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Our society in general encourages irresponsible behavior. A universal NHS service for all does exactly that. I mean obviously you would have people that have looked after themselves, led a good life, but have little money and under privatization these people might not be able to afford care. This is clearly unacceptable, but I also don't think people that don't deserve care should be given it. If people abuse their bodies over and over again why do they deserve an NHS that will always try to bail them out? Because every human life is equally important. Are you perfect, or have you ever eaten, say, a pie, or drank a beer? That is technically "abusing" your body. Is everything you consume or utilise 100% benificial for your health? I very much doubt it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Our society in general encourages irresponsible behavior. A universal NHS service for all does exactly that. I mean obviously you would have people that have looked after themselves, led a good life, but have little money and under privatization these people might not be able to afford care. This is clearly unacceptable, but I also don't think people that don't deserve care should be given it. If people abuse their bodies over and over again why do they deserve an NHS that will always try to bail them out? That's a different debate. The NHS was created by a government with a huge majority. Its being taken away by a Tory party that doesn't have a majority and didn't have the scrapping of the NHS on its manifesto. They have no right to break up one of the greatest Health Services in the world that has been paid for by working men and women for over 60 years. Why won't they debate it and try and convince us that its the right thing to do instead of sneaking it through by hiding it in the small print of a "reform" bill? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralRam Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Tough times, tough measures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Because every human life is equally important. Are you perfect, or have you ever eaten, say, a pie, or drank a beer? That is technically "abusing" your body. Is everything you consume or utilise 100% benificial for your health? I very much doubt it, One beer is not abusing your body, but I don't drink. If someone drinks say a bottle of vodka a day and a bottle of wine, their liver starts to fail, do they deserve help? I don't think so, in this day and age everybody knows the risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Research? It's a personal opinion and theory so I guess you could say my life is the research. Our society has a massive lack of responsibilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Our society in general encourages irresponsible behavior. A universal NHS service for all does exactly that. I mean obviously you would have people that have looked after themselves, led a good life, but have little money and under privatization these people might not be able to afford care. This is clearly unacceptable, but I also don't think people that don't deserve care should be given it. If people abuse their bodies over and over again why do they deserve an NHS that will always try to bail them out? edin this view is flawed for many reasons one of them is that with this thesis the united states would be healthier than ourselves because many can't afford insurance and would then look after themselves, this is not the case at all, America is a very unhealthy nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 One beer is not abusing your body, but I don't drink. If someone drinks say a bottle of vodka a day and a bottle of wine, their liver starts to fail, do they deserve help? I don't think so, in this day and age everybody knows the risks. yes it is abusing your body edin, because it is technically harming your body, again you don't address why people drink to that amount? to say some deserve care and others don't is a gross statement. Your system is open to prejudices from the staff and would be unworkable, what if someone tried to kill themselves? would they receive treatment as technically they abused their body? Also i knew a man who smoked every day of his life, he lived until he was 90 and developed cancer, however this was not because of his smoking, would you treat him? If you did research you would see this idea would be a disaster and would leave millions without care, it would be the type of policy to start a minor revolution edin. You would see that it would be unworkable, and you would see that the results you desire would not come, it wouldn't change peoples lifestyles, lack of health insurance doesn't in the U.S. What about obesity? would you not treat fat people for heart disease? what about the effects of your policy, rendering millions of people off work because they can't be treated, and yet you would still have to support them financially. How would you categorize people and then if how would you monitor 60 million people on their lifestyle? also would this be injuries which are because of the abuse or everything e.g. broken leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Tough times, tough measures. Tougher than the 1940's or 50's? Its a political decision, nowt to do with the country's wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralRam Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Tougher than the 1940's or 50's? Its a political decision, nowt to do with the country's wealth. The whole country's finances are ******. Mainly because Labour never saved for a rainy day, sold all our gold off and built their entire policy relying on the global economy to be growing. I don't know about you but I keep a spare wheel and tyre in my car in case I get a puncture. The puncture will inevitably happen sooner or later - I just don't want to have to deal with it the hard way. Well that puncture has happened and we are going to have to take the hard way of getting out of the **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I'm at work and am typing on my phone so it's a little difficult, I'd be delighted to talk about the subject later on. I will say a few things though, I am not promoting an American style healthcare system, I just think we need to really crackdown on giving away stuff for nothing. Too many people want freebies, and support but aren't prepared to work for it or contribute to our country. This has to stop. The words of the late great JFK still ring true today "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralRam Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I'm at work and am typing on my phone so it's a little difficult, I'd be delighted to talk about the subject later on. I will say a few things though, I am not promoting an American style healthcare system, I just think we need to really crackdown on giving away stuff for nothing. Too many people want freebies, and support but aren't prepared to work for it or contribute to our country. This has to stop. The words of the late great JFK still ring true today "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" +1!, Too many people take advantage - I think you should do community work for the entire time your on benefits. If you don't turn up - you starve and don't deserve anything from the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 There is people taking advantage through the benefits system which needs to be cracked down on and the NHS which isn't anything like that, I am not going to write another post of length on it as my earlier one covered a lot of points. I would say it isn't all Labours fault, they needed to save for a rainy day yes, but no one predicted the collapse that happened, no one thought it was imaginable. At the moment the country is on a tipping point, we are relatively close to going into negative growth, with a tough winter ahead and job losses across the country incoming, with the eurozone in trouble and America could have big problems a year down the line it is looking a bit like the perfect storm and we need better shelter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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