Nhs

[GeneralRam]

There is people taking advantage through the benefits system which needs to be cracked down on and the NHS which isn't anything like that, I am not going to write another post of length on it as my earlier one covered a lot of points. I would say it isn't all Labours fault, they needed to save for a rainy day yes, but no one predicted the collapse that happened, no one thought it was imaginable. At the moment the country is on a tipping point, we are relatively close to going into negative growth, with a tough winter ahead and job losses across the country incoming, with the eurozone in trouble and America could have big problems a year down the line it is looking a bit like the perfect storm and we need better shelter.

But I would say our shelter is 100x better then any shelter in Europe right now. If Spain falls, Italy will fall. If Italy falls then France falls. Then Germany.

[Leeds Ram]

But I would say our shelter is 100x better then any shelter in Europe right now. If Spain falls, Italy will fall. If Italy falls then France falls. Then Germany.

well a lot of that will effect us, it will effect our trade and if Spain and Italy fail we will be forced to come into the game and bail these countries out and that will give us a major problem with many areas of our economic stimulus.

[GeneralRam]

well a lot of that will effect us, it will effect our trade and if Spain and Italy fail we will be forced to come into the game and bail these countries out and that will give us a major problem with many areas of our economic stimulus.

Fack em! Lock our borders and become North Korea #2.

[EdinburghRam]

There is people taking advantage through the benefits system which needs to be cracked down on and the NHS which isn't anything like that, I am not going to write another post of length on it as my earlier one covered a lot of points. I would say it isn't all Labours fault, they needed to save for a rainy day yes, but no one predicted the collapse that happened, no one thought it was imaginable. At the moment the country is on a tipping point, we are relatively close to going into negative growth, with a tough winter ahead and job losses across the country incoming, with the eurozone in trouble and America could have big problems a year down the line it is looking a bit like the perfect storm and we need better shelter.

People are taking advantage of the NHS, don't you agree? There are people who don't work (frankly because they don't need to, their benefits support them), and expect free health care just like the rest of us. More than ever we can't afford stragglers, and this country has far far too many. I've actually been pretty disappointed in the Tory crackdown, I expected so much more.

In twenty years time 40% of the adult population is going to be obese, this is a staggering figure. I fully support a tax on your health, if you are unhealthy, you should be taxed more. People clearly aren't motivated enough by the warnings about their health, perhaps if we hit them where it hurts, their pocket.

[GeneralRam]

People are taking advantage of the NHS, don't you agree? There are people who don't work (frankly because they don't need to, their benefits support them), and expect free health care just like the rest of us. More than ever we can't afford stragglers, and this country has far far too many. I've actually been pretty disappointed in the Tory crackdown, I expected so much more.

In twenty years time 40% of the adult population is going to be obese, this is a staggering figure. I fully support a tax on your health, if you are unhealthy, you should be taxed more. People clearly aren't motivated enough by the warnings about their health, perhaps if we hit them where it hurts, their pocket.

I kind of agree, needs to be a bigger tax on fast food and frozen food.

[Leeds Ram]

People are taking advantage of the NHS, don't you agree? There are people who don't work (frankly because they don't need to, their benefits support them), and expect free health care just like the rest of us. More than ever we can't afford stragglers, and this country has far far too many. I've actually been pretty disappointed in the Tory crackdown, I expected so much more.

In twenty years time 40% of the adult population is going to be obese, this is a staggering figure. I fully support a tax on your health, if you are unhealthy, you should be taxed more. People clearly aren't motivated enough by the warnings about their health, perhaps if we hit them where it hurts, their pocket.

Edin you have just provided your own downfall, interestingly enough you failed to answer any of my concerns and just rambled on about ideological nonsense. You want to tax unhealthy people more? you are insane, how do you monitor who is healthy and who isn't? how do you measure the standard of unhealthiness? people don't take advantage of the N.H.S as such, they use it when it is needed to assess their health, you can't just take it away and say no health care for you. I believe everyone deserves free health care in this country, it is one of our duties as a nation to look after our citizens especially the poorest in society.

Also you say unhealthy people, would this include people who have cancer, arthritis etc these are not healthy people but they have serious conditions, also how would you monitor how unhealthy people are and are in the future. Rather than tax the people tax the multi national chains more, put government programmes out there with vouchers for healthy food like fruit and veg, use initiatives like that don't tax them more. Your statistics i think are a little off, i have heard it is in fact 30% by 2030 depending on the country. Your solution is to leave these people festering which is not an option in the real world.

[Leeds Ram]

Fack em! Lock our borders and become North Korea #2.

i wouldn't want to become North Korea but it would be nice if the entire western economy wasn't collapsing around us

[EdinburghRam]

Edin you have just provided your own downfall, interestingly enough you failed to answer any of my concerns and just rambled on about ideological nonsense. You want to tax unhealthy people more? you are insane, how do you monitor who is healthy and who isn't? how do you measure the standard of unhealthiness? people don't take advantage of the N.H.S as such, they use it when it is needed to assess their health, you can't just take it away and say no health care for you. I believe everyone deserves free health care in this country, it is one of our duties as a nation to look after our citizens especially the poorest in society.

Also you say unhealthy people, would this include people who have cancer, arthritis etc these are not healthy people but they have serious conditions, also how would you monitor how unhealthy people are and are in the future. Rather than tax the people tax the multi national chains more, put government programmes out there with vouchers for healthy food like fruit and veg, use initiatives like that don't tax them more. Your statistics i think are a little off, i have heard it is in fact 30% by 2030 depending on the country. Your solution is to leave these people festering which is not an option in the real world.

I'm going to end this here before I get into trouble but I would just like to point out a few things.

First Bold point - We already have measures over whether someone is obese, overweight, perfect weight or under weight. If someone is obese then I suggest we tax them more, unless of course they have a condition. It's unacceptable to be obese in my opinion, the number of kids these days that are just blubber is scary.

Second Bold - I never said anything about wealth, wealth has got absolutely nothing to do with it.

Third Bold - Of course not, my definition would be along the lines of something that is preventable, e.g. they have caused it to themselves.

Fourth Bold- No my solution is to try and help these people, and not leave them festering in their own fat to die.

Well my figures are government figures that were reported on the news so I would trust mine a little more than yours.

[Leeds Ram]

I'm going to end this here before I get into trouble but I would just like to point out a few things.

First Bold point - We already have measures over whether someone is obese, overweight, perfect weight or under weight. If someone is obese then I suggest we tax them more, unless of course they have a condition. It's unacceptable to be obese in my opinion, the number of kids these days that are just blubber is scary.

Second Bold - I never said anything about wealth, wealth has got absolutely nothing to do with it.

Third Bold - Of course not, my definition would be along the lines of something that is preventable, e.g. they have caused it to themselves.

Fourth Bold- No my solution is to try and help these people, and not leave them festering in their own fat to die.

Well my figures are government figures that were reported on the news so I would trust mine a little more than yours.

A) you constantly mention wealth, e.g. benefit users don't deserve an NHS and they essentially shouldn't have it.

B) your plan for taxation is faulty, would it just be fat people or would it be alcohol users as well? the system for obese, fat etc is poor, my friend is classed as obese but he goes to the gym every day and is healthier and fitter than me and i have a perfect BMI, also how could you monitor everyone? would it include children or not? if you tax them more, they will be poorer and end up buying worse food for less money which will in all probability be unhealthier, why not tax the big corporations more? Tax will not solve it, you need to help them not charge them more

C) preventable could be used in all sorts of ways, if someone didn't crack their fingers then that would be better than not in terms of arthritis, what about smokers who get cancer? what about sti s and stds they could be prevented would you treat them? what about falling off ladders could be prevented?so you wouldn't treat alcoholism etc? would you treat suicide attempts? Your solution could be abused by hospitals so to keep in budget they don't treat some people because it was preventable, your policy is open to abuse everywhere

D) if you trust government figures your mad.

[EdinburghRam]

You constantly refer to me as mad/insane, cruel etc, yet I'm accused of winding you up.

I have never said that people on benefits don't deserve the NHS, that is just a clear lie. I said that people take advantage of the NHS, just like people take advantage of the benefits system.

The current system has a lot of room for abuse as well, and I don't really see you offering any alternatives to my ideas. I'm not looking to crackdown on one offs, people that might have been a little unfortunate, made a mistake. I'm looking at the long term offenders who take us all for a ride, trust me there is enough of them to make a huge difference to our country. If someone smokes all their life and gets cancer because of it then that is their own fault. It's not like there isn't help on offer and lots of health warnings, they know fine well the consequences.

[GeneralRam]

I'm going to end this here before I get into trouble but I would just like to point out a few things.

First Bold point - We already have measures over whether someone is obese, overweight, perfect weight or under weight. If someone is obese then I suggest we tax them more, unless of course they have a condition. It's unacceptable to be obese in my opinion, the number of kids these days that are just blubber is scary.

Second Bold - I never said anything about wealth, wealth has got absolutely nothing to do with it.

Third Bold - Of course not, my definition would be along the lines of something that is preventable, e.g. they have caused it to themselves.

Fourth Bold- No my solution is to try and help these people, and not leave them festering in their own fat to die.

Well my figures are government figures that were reported on the news so I would trust mine a little more than yours.

For some reason though, everything seems to go on the BMI scale. I was technically obese for my height (14.7 stone, 5ft7) after university. However with me being very broad I would have just said overweight. I am now 12.5 stone (you'll be able to see comparison pics in the gym thread to see what I mean).

I would say my weight is about right but according to the BMI, it says I should be 11 stone and that im currently overweight.

I agree with what you say though Edinburgh, but I would rather the causes of obesity be tackled rather then obesity itself. Get more exercise in school, tax high calorie/fast food etc.

[Leeds Ram]

You constantly refer to me as mad/insane, cruel etc, yet I'm accused of winding you up.

I have never said that people on benefits don't deserve the NHS, that is just a clear lie. I said that people take advantage of the NHS, just like people take advantage of the benefits system.

The current system has a lot of room for abuse as well, and I don't really see you offering any alternatives to my ideas. I'm not looking to crackdown on one offs, people that might have been a little unfortunate, made a mistake. I'm looking at the long term offenders who take us all for a ride, trust me there is enough of them to make a huge difference to our country. If someone smokes all their life and gets cancer because of it then that is their own fault. It's not like there isn't help on offer and lots of health warnings, they know fine well the consequences.

"There are people who don't work (frankly because they don't need to, their benefits support them), and expect free health care just like the rest of us."

That is what you said, that implies they don't deserve free healthcare which is the NHS, you struggle to remember what you say, this has happened a few times in the past.

Your system is unworkable edin, it is unfair and it takes away the states responsibility to look after the ill as well. The current system maintains that everyone deserves treatment for the ailments you have, i agree with that, now could more preventative measures be bought in of course they could and should. You should start in the schools, part of citizenship should be about employment and unemployment, many who are unemployed are in a cycle and a rut, and can't get out because they feel powerless.

These people need the help they deserve. You should also have more cooking lessons to help students cook and you could also teach more about the risks of not exercising and eating too much of the wrong things, or you could create a new class or incorporate it into citizenship.

For people who are overweight the doctor could have a yearly test for every adult to see how they are, the doctors closest to you would send out a slip for a date you have to come in and have a check, those who are overweight and obese could be sent to cooking classes or have some advice because many claim they don't have time to cook.

I would incorporate a tax onto the big fast food chains and the smaller ones which produce bad food, it would be called a society damage tax, 10% of all their profits made would be taken by the government and directly put into a scheme which would encourage local businesses who are in fast food to go into healthier restaurants or healthier takeaways, the money if any left would also go towards preventative treatment for various problems, e.g. obesity, alcoholism etc.

Those are just a few of the plans, more preventative treatment does need to be out there but punishing people e.g. taxing them isn't going to help, all it does is annoy them and makes them feel the victim. It doesn't provide a lesson and not many people learn moral lessons from their wallet. The NHS would stay the same, provide treatment for everyone for every ailment and to do what they can, much focus would be put onto preventative treatment and maybe even a nationalized gym so everyone can keep healthy.

[EdinburghRam]

For some reason though, everything seems to go on the BMI scale. I was technically obese for my height (14.7 stone, 5ft7) after university. However with me being very broad I would have just said overweight. I am now 12.5 stone (you'll be able to see comparison pics in the gym thread to see what I mean).

I would say my weight is about right but according to the BMI, it says I should be 11 stone and that im currently overweight.

I agree with what you say though Edinburgh, but I would rather the causes of obesity be tackled rather then obesity itself. Get more exercise in school, tax high calorie/fast food etc.

To be honest that doesn't sound a particularly proportioned weight, I mean I'm around 6 inches bigger, but two stone less (than 14.7).

I totally agree about the high calorie tax and the more exercise in school bit they are more designed towards the next generation. What about the current one, they are the that will soon be crippling our health care system.

[dcfcdavecov]

Wahey.

I'm not buying this Edin....you've made me login man!

I'm 28.9 on the old BMI.....i'm not fat though.....just hard, everyone down the gym doing weights are overweight, but healthier than most.

I'm not paying tax on high calorie foods and fast foods just because others abuse their bodies. I like fast food, why should i be penalised?

Also, beer and fags bring more into the country than what the NHS spends treating related illnesses.

Also, this would be the hardest thing ever to actually enforce. Are we going round weighing everyone every week? Last week i could be being punished, the next i'm not...all because of a few pounds of weight i've lost.

Mothers after pregnancy?

Everyone over 65 who struggle more to keep weight off, as they arent so active, and have slowed down metabolisms.

Kids who are atill growing

Are we penalising people who have desk jobs, or do we give them a bit of room around the waistline?

Are we going to not treat people who are under weight? It's the same thing.

As a side note....my body being the way it is, and with my water retention....after a night out on t' town, i put on 6-7lbs.....you just can't enforce things like this. It takes my body a week to get back to it's proper weight.

[EdinburghRam]

YR the benefits quote that you brought up. I was using people on benefits as an example of people were the majority of people don't contribute to society. People that don't give anything shouldn't get anything in return, That's my view unless there are serious circumstances that prevent them (not very common). That is very different from saying that poor people don't deserve our health care which is what you are trying to claim I said. I have no doubt you understand what I'm saying, but that would no doubt take away from your theory that I'm insane.

There is plenty of education available on the subject, it's just that people don't care enough. They are lazy and need motivation, taxing them will give them a start.

[Leeds Ram]

Wahey.

I'm not buying this Edin....you've made me login man!

I'm 28.9 on the old BMI.....i'm not fat though.....just hard, everyone down the gym doing weights are overweight, but healthier than most.

I'm not paying tax on high calorie foods and fast foods just because others abuse their bodies. I like fast food, why should i be penalised?

Also, beer and fags bring more into the country than what the NHS spends treating related illnesses.

Also, this would be the hardest thing ever to actually enforce. Are we going round weighing everyone every week? Last week i could be being punished, the next i'm not...all because of a few pounds of weight i've lost.

Mothers after pregnancy?

Everyone over 65 who struggle more to keep weight off, as they arent so active, and have slowed down metabolisms.

Kids who are atill growing

Are we penalising people who have desk jobs, or do we give them a bit of room around the waistline?

Are we going to not treat people who are under weight? It's the same thing.

exactly, my tax on fast food chains would be offset in some way so prices wouldn't go substantially up, my problems with his ideas are similar to yours cov, how would he be able to feasibly do this? and isn't it very immoral to do it as well.

[Leeds Ram]

YR the benefits quote that you brought up. I was using people on benefits as an example of people were the majority of people don't contribute to society. People that don't give anything shouldn't get anything in return, That's my view unless there are serious circumstances that prevent them (not very common). That is very different from saying that poor people don't deserve our health care which is what you are trying to claim I said. I have no doubt you understand what I'm saying, but that would no doubt take away from your theory that I'm insane.

There is plenty of education available on the subject, it's just that people don't care enough. They are lazy and need motivation, taxing them will give them a start.

so they don't deserve an NHS, you say the majority? how do you know this? my guess is you lived in a middle class household and had no idea that some people aren't equipped with the skills, i know that many abuse the system but i also know that many do not abuse the system of benefits subsidizing their living. People who are living on pensions don't contribute to society but no one would dream of taking away the NHS for them, everyone deserves free health care edin.

There isn't enough education edin, and taxing people won't make them change, when i was at school i had cooking up until year 9 but very little nutritional advice about how bad foods were, obviously you knew some foods were unhealthy but you weren't educated fully on the risks, my programme i believe would be a start to help appease the crisis. Taxing them will just annoy them and it is an unworkable system edin. People will just say they are thinner than they are, what are you going to do? go round with scales and a tape measure?

[GeneralRam]

To be honest that doesn't sound a particularly proportioned weight, I mean I'm around 6 inches bigger, but two stone less (than 14.7).

I totally agree about the high calorie tax and the more exercise in school bit they are more designed towards the next generation. What about the current one, they are the that will soon be crippling our health care system.

I am very broad at the shoulders, I wish I played rugby when younger as I am the perfect build for a prop. I am also the only person that I know of that can lift more on my shoulders then on my chest! lol

[EdinburghRam]

so they don't deserve an NHS, you say the majority? how do you know this? my guess is you lived in a middle class household and had no idea that some people aren't equipped with the skills, i know that many abuse the system but i also know that many do not abuse the system of benefits subsidizing their living. People who are living on pensions don't contribute to society but no one would dream of taking away the NHS for them, everyone deserves free health care edin.

There isn't enough education edin, and taxing people won't make them change, when i was at school i had cooking up until year 9 but very little nutritional advice about how bad foods were, obviously you knew some foods were unhealthy but you weren't educated fully on the risks, my programme i believe would be a start to help appease the crisis. Taxing them will just annoy them and it is an unworkable system edin. People will just say they are hinner than they are, what are you going to do? go round with scales and a tape

measure?

Hopefully pensioners will have contributed all their lives, and earnt the right for support. There is definitely enough education on the subject but it doesn't matter because people don't listen. You teach of the dangers of fatty foods and alcohol, people just say you're exaggerating, you hit them in the pocket and maybe they will listen.

They will have Medicals every three months, if they fail then they will be taxed for that period. Depending on how well they do in the three month period they can reclaim some of the tax, up to 60% or so. This creates funds, motivates people to get fitter. Obviously there are other problems as well, fresh fruit and veg is far too expensive, we need to encourage more local growth, we need to utilise more of the space we have. More exercise in schools, seems simple enough but I had about 1 hour of P.E. in my sixth year, simply not enough.

[davenportram]

Hopefully pensioners will have contributed all their lives, and earnt the right for support. There is definitely enough education on the subject but it doesn't matter because people don't listen. You teach of the dangers of fatty foods and alcohol, people just say you're exaggerating, you hit them in the pocket and maybe they will listen.

They will have Medicals every three months, if they fail then they will be taxed for that period. Depending on how well they do in the three month period they can reclaim some of the tax, up to 60% or so. This creates funds, motivates people to get fitter. Obviously there are other problems as well, fresh fruit and veg is far too expensive, we need to encourage more local growth, we need to utilise more of the space we have. More exercise in schools, seems simple enough but I had about 1 hour of P.E. in my sixth year, simply not enough.

More exercise in schools isn't the answer, it may help a few individuals but heres only a finite amount of time in a schools timetable, which is the main driving force in limiting the amount of PE Games time pupils get. During my GCSE and A-level years if they had forced Sports lessons on me I wouldnt have had enough time to complete my 5 A-levels and so the required amount of private study. i know that in the 6th form you generally get Free Periods, but these are actually meant as Study Periods - because the A-level courses require a certain amount of time available for self study during the school week

Not everyone enjoys sports or exercise - but that doesn't mean that they will become obese if they don't do it. I knew lots of people at School that did naff all exercise and didn't become obese.

Similarly doing lots of exercise at school doesnt necessarily mean you will stay healthy and not become Obese. I Knew lots of people too who played rugby, football etc but became Obese on leaving school when that ready made sports environment was removed.

I do agree that the cost of healthier foods is too high. when I was growing up a Marathon (Snickers for the younger amongst us) cost more than a loaf of bread - now it is the other way round.

Chocolate and nice stuff cost relatively more in the old days and it was seen rightfully as on occasional treat. Now because it is relatively cheaper it is seen as the norm.