The Worse Performance To Ever Win A Game?

[StaffsRam]

Yes, I was extremely critical.. I couldn't believe our luck, especially in the home game against Southampton (2nd leg) when we were played off the park.. Incidentally we played brilliant away and the tie could have been over before the second leg.

As our team actually got worse with the sales of Howard and Oakley, relegation was a certainty and our average players and negative style of play resulted in us being the worst 1st division team in history.

Well I'm not going to argue with that, as I thought we were sh1te for most of that season, and used up about 10 years' worth of luck.

Personally I'd have kept Oakley and Howard and not bought in some of the January signings. At least they were two of our better players in the promotion season and were actually proven in the Championship.

[Bris Vegas]

Depends on how you look at it.

Second half against Brum we were just as likely to score as they were.

Second half against Watford today, we had the lead and ground out the win. We didn't seem particularly bothered about getting the second goal, but never really looked like conceding.

2 decent halves out of 4.

This with Barker, Tyson, Green, Addison to come back into the side.

It's not cause for over-optimism that's for sure, but equally it's not really cause for over-criticism either.

Only Green out of those should get in our side.. The others would make good squad players nothing else.

We weren't decent against Brum in the second half nor today.. We haven't had a dominated 15-20 spell in the match yet.. All our first halfs this season has been dreadful.. Our second halfs have been an improvement but hardly what Id call top quality..

This team would get ripped to shreds by the Derby County team in the first half of the 2010-11 season.

all IMO of course

[RotherhamRam]

I went as balistic as the next person when we scored and im pleased we won.

But, you've got to look at the bigger picture, 2 games in and Nigel is setting us up to play boring, negative football. If this was at the end of the season and we're fighting for survival i could understand it. Playing this way is Nigel basically admitting we're not good enough to play good football.

If Watford could finish that would have been a 2-3 goal loss, we created nothing in 90 minutes of football, that should worry you. I expect Watford to be near the bottom of the table this season and they were miles better than us, that is worrying.

How do you get that we have had a crap preseason with injuries we have new players getting fit used to everyone and last week versus Bitmingham was anything but boring and we could have been 4-1 up with Ward missed sitter and header on cross bar at beginning of second half.

Away from from home you have to play different and they can smash and crap everyweek if the majority of the time we pick up a win or draw as the away form for past two years we have struggled. My old man said if you win at home and draw away you will always be in or around the top, This basically means be positive at home and go for the win and away from home just make sure you get a result. Just for info if you could win at home and draw away that would give us 92pts.

I think to hopefully guarantee playoff we need at least 21 wins and 12 draws (75pts). We now need 19 wins and 12 draws. Give the team time.

[StaffsRam]

Only Green out of those should get in our side.. The others would make good squad players nothing else.

Barker will walk straight back into the side once he's fit. It's a shame as that will limit OB's chances, but it'll happen.

We weren't decent against Brum in the second half

Created the chances to add at least one more goal, and probably two to the score before they started pressing towards the end.

nor today.. We haven't had a dominated 15-20 spell in the match yet..

We were effective in the second half - I can't remember them having too many chances in the second half, we kept them at arm's length.

All our first halfs this season has been dreadful.. Our second halfs have been an improvement but hardly what Id call top quality..

Well I won't argue with the first halves, as I think that's correct, and whilst I don't think the second halves are top quality, I think they've been enough to warrant 3 points from both games.

This team would get ripped to shreds by the Derby County team in the first half of the 2010-11 season.

I still think we're missing a replacement for Commons, we just don't have that level of creativity. On the flip side, we're a better side than the one that finished the season.

all IMO of course

Indeed.

[Bris Vegas]

In respect of you post if we lose to League 2 sides (which to be honest there is not so many of them) but win against Championship sides (which in the league is all that matters as I am sure we are in the Championship) on current form should be ok seeing as in the Championship we have

Played 2

Won 2

Scored 3

Scores Against 1

Points 6

Position 3rd

Has I think you have said in the past Results are all that counts we are getting the results and the performances will come when they adjust tothe new players. I take it you have been watching the games on Ramsplayer or listening to it today to be able to comment on performances.

I agree they were poor today but once they got the goal the side lifted and Watford although they had the pressure before then struggled to get the shots in as they were before. So relax and enjoy the results no matter how we get them.

Mate I just don't take comfort of winning games but playing poor.. Because it's only a matter of time before you hit the wall.

The results are only important when it comes down to crunch matches and finals.. If we were to play like that, win the game and survive on the last day of the season then I wouldn't care..

But when your in a 46 game season then performances at an early stage give indication of how the season is going to follow..

Having played football I'm not alone in saying I take great confidence in losing but knowing that our team is capable of taking teams to the cleaners because of the way we've played.. more so than picking up a lucky win at another (prediction: relegation struggler) but being on the back foot for 90% of the match..

I can hardly imagine the likes of B.Davies, Kilbane and Croft can take much confidence of chasing shadows of other average players for half the game.

[RotherhamRam]

Only Green out of those should get in our side.. The others would make good squad players nothing else.

We weren't decent against Brum in the second half nor today.. We haven't had a dominated 15-20 spell in the match yet.. All our first halfs this season has been dreadful.. Our second halfs have been an improvement but hardly what Id call top quality..

This team would get ripped to shreds by the Derby County team in the first half of the 2010-11 season.

all IMO of course

Here you go again BV speaking nonsense IMO.

Everyone including commentators can not wait to see Barker and Shackell in heart of defence.

Green will give everything and has now midfielders around him who will help him out.

I watched Tyson against Villa and until he got squashed by the two villa defenders on purpose and got injured his link play, getting head to the ball in the air and pace will do nothing but improve the attack side. This is however someone who watches the games be it in person at home games and ramsplayer (radio and then replay on media) views so this is my opinion.

Out of interest do ever admit that you maybe wrong or just continue on the same vein. I have admitted we were poor but I don't care Hanson even states on MOTD how important it is to be able to do that has it is this skill which pushes you up the league

[StaffsRam]

Thing with Barker is that when he comes back he'll (hopefully) be 100%. I don't think we've seen that for well over a season now.

Like I said, it's a shame that it'll limit OB's opportunities, but Barker/Shackell has to be our first choice pairing I think.

[RIMBAUD]

'The results are only important when it comes down to crunch matches and finals..'

Sorry Bv -results are all that matters every game - to suggest otherwise is foolish.

I see what you're saying but you have to be careful about labouring the point.

[Bris Vegas]

Staffs how can you say our second half performances have warranted the 3 points.. Yes the defence played remarkably well, but we were on the back foot for the majority of the half..

Just because we were looking fairly comfortable at protecting a lead (though they still had their chances), we've had to rely on two wonderstrikes from S.Davies to actually win the matches..We've not looking like applying any sort of pressure in the final 3rd in both NPC games.

Had he ballooned them into row Z we'd all be sitting here moaning how dreadful we are.. Yet as we've picked up 6 points, all of a sudden everything is rosy.

Our second half performances have been a case of sit back and soak up pressure.. Are we planning on doing this all season? Blackpool away will be a huge test, they create numerous chances and it's all about attacking possession football from them.

If we play anywhere near what we did today we could be in deep trouble

[RotherhamRam]

Mate I just don't take comfort of winning games but playing poor.. Because it's only a matter of time before you hit the wall.

The results are only important when it comes down to crunch matches and finals.. If we were to play like that, win the game and survive on the last day of the season then I wouldn't care..

But when your in a 46 game season then performances at an early stage give indication of how the season is going to follow..

Having played football I'm not alone in saying I take great confidence in losing but knowing that our team is capable of taking teams to the cleaners because of the way we've played.. more so than picking up a lucky win at another (prediction: relegation struggler) but being on the back foot for 90% of the match..

I can hardly imagine the likes of B.Davies, Kilbane and Croft can take much confidence of chasing shadows of other average players for half the game.

performances do not give an indication in the sense of how we play so disagree there

However performances and results are linked together cos lat year we played well and lost we played poorly and showed no fight and got well beaten last year.

This season we played well first game overall and held a Brum side who needed to get off to a good start but we won great. Played poor today and won great.

For me it shows a change in mentality if it is not working we can play a certain way and get a result. We have not been able to do this for past two season which led to us being in mess at the end of the season and facing a risk of relelgation.

So for me the results and performances to date give me confidence for the season and more importantly the players will be gaining confidence which is just as important

[EastKentRam]

Mate I just don't take comfort of winning games but playing poor.. Because it's only a matter of time before you hit the wall.

The results are only important when it comes down to crunch matches and finals.. If we were to play like that, win the game and survive on the last day of the season then I wouldn't care..

But when your in a 46 game season then performances at an early stage give indication of how the season is going to follow..

Having played football I'm not alone in saying I take great confidence in losing but knowing that our team is capable of taking teams to the cleaners because of the way we've played.. more so than picking up a lucky win at another (prediction: relegation struggler) but being on the back foot for 90% of the match..

I can hardly imagine the likes of B.Davies, Kilbane and Croft can take much confidence of chasing shadows of other average players for half the game.

Agree entirely, it's the way Clough has set us up that worries me. I can guarantee if we play like we did today for the rest of the season away from home we wont pick up more than about 5 points. How many times last season did we try and hold on to leads/draws and get un done late on? Against a better side today we would have lost. I dont understand why Clough wants us to play so negatively like we did today.

[zippy]

performances do not give an indication in the sense of how we play so disagree there

For me it shows a change in mentality if it is not working we can play a certain way and get a result. We have not been able to do this for past two season which led to us being in mess at the end of the season and facing a risk of relelgation.

So for me the results and performances to date give me confidence for the season and more importantly the players will be gaining confidence which is just as important

Exactly right, it would be nice to develop the mentality that if we are in front after 80 minutes we are going to win rather than last years wait for some 87th minute schoolboy error.

[StaffsRam]

Staffs how can you say our second half performances have warranted the 3 points.. Yes the defence played remarkably well, but we were on the back foot for the majority of the half..

Brum played no better than us in the second half of the opening game. We led 2-1 already - they didn't do enough to overturn it.

Watford, again, we scored, they didn't, and we sounded very comfortable after we took the lead. Watford didn't deserve to overturn the score and take any points.

Just because we were looking fairly comfortable at protecting a lead (though they still had their chances), we've had to rely on two wonderstrikes from S.Davies to actually win the matches..We've not looking like applying any sort of pressure in the final 3rd in both NPC games.

We could easily have been 4-1 up against Brum before their late push. Ward had two good chances, including one that came back off the bar.

Agree that we didn't particularly press for a second today, but after Tuesday's debacle they probably figured that they'd rather just make sure they held onto the 3 points and not throw it away.

Had he ballooned them into row Z we'd all be sitting here moaning how dreadful we are.. Yet as we've picked up 6 points, all of a sudden everything is rosy.

And if Ward's efforts had gone in against Brum then it would be irrelevant either way, it's 'ifs' and 'buts'.

Our second half performances have been a case of sit back and soak up pressure.. Are we planning on doing this all season? Blackpool away will be a huge test, they create numerous chances and it's all about attacking possession football from them.

Good. Blackpool can come onto us just as Brum and Watford have. The only difference is that Blackpool are more cavalier than either of the sides we've met so far. That could work out better for Blackpool, or it could work out better for us.

If we play anywhere near what we did today we could be in deep trouble

Could be, but not necessarily.

As I said earlier, the main problem we have at the moment is the lack of creativity in midfield. Until we address that problem then we're going to be reliant on 'hit and run' tactics. If we're forced down that route then we can at least make sure that we're effective at it and picking up points. So far, we have.

[RotherhamRam]

Agree entirely, it's the way Clough has set us up that worries me. I can guarantee if we play like we did today for the rest of the season away from home we wont pick up more than about 5 points. How many times last season did we try and hold on to leads/draws and get un done late on? Against a better side today we would have lost. I dont understand why Clough wants us to play so negatively like we did today.

New side still getting used to each other and injuries to players who would be playing a result is a result and after Shrewsbury a win today is the best result and was not expected.

Another loss would have got the team thinking about last year the fans depressed (even though some are now which is unbelievable after a win).

Today gives players confidence and a building stone. If you honestly feel this depressed after winning and being 3rd maybe you need a break for a bit and watch a team like Man Utd who has multi million pounds players who are top quality players who play well every week instead of a championship team in a league where everyone can beat everyone and every team could has easily go down as well as be promoted as this may make you happier for a while if it is that bad to watch/support a side winning.

I will for one will be smiling tonight no matter how we got the 3pts as this is what matters.

[EastKentRam]

What annoys me is that Clough has been here three seasons and this is how far we've come, going away to f*cking Watford and parking the bus and stealing a win. If people knew 3 years ago that's how we would be playing now they wouldnt be happy.

http://www.wfcforums.com/showthread.php?t=39249

Look at the comments on there, they lost but i'd take plenty of positive from their performance if i was a Watford fan. Other than 3 points there wasnt one significant positive to take out of todays game for us.

[Alph]

I'd imagine that Nigel Clough wont be saying to his team on Wednesday

"Go do what you did v Watford"

He wont, because like everyone he knows that if we perform like that over and over we'll lose games. Performances will have to improve.

But the Watford result was excellent. 3pts at Vicarage Road in a game we were poor?? That's how Leagues are won. But lots to work on.

Billy's team was always heading for a car crash. The Wembley final was like the entire season, we had some luck (dont want to emphasis luck because we came 3rd!!) and we had just enough quality to see the opposition off.

But then came the PL and we didn't have that bit of luck. We had the players to just see off Championship sides.... but not enough to match the Premiership clubs and their quality matchwinners. Then even the good bits about the team were shipped off and we assembled a right bunch of mismatches.

The George Burley season was less enjoyable than the Billy one in the end.... but looking back, which would you rather have again?

I'd rather have the Burley days. Has a far brighter future.

[RIMBAUD]

Good post.

- and as a response to the initial question - barnsley at home - promotion season.

[StaffsRam]

On a side note, it would be interesting to see what our owners would actually do if we went up.

Having a Premier League side on their portfolio would be good for them, but they'd have to finally invest properly on the players side to keep it a PL club.

Otherwise, they'd use the raised profile to sell us I guess.

[RotherhamRam]

What annoys me is that Clough has been here three seasons and this is how far we've come, going away to f*cking Watford and parking the bus and stealing a win. If people knew 3 years ago that's how we would be playing now they wouldnt be happy.

http://www.wfcforums.com/showthread.php?t=39249

Look at the comments on there, they lost but i'd take plenty of positive from their performance if i was a Watford fan. Other than 3 points there wasnt one significant positive to take out of todays game for us.

Clueless, daft comments, depressive fed up of the constant crap after a win:mad:

Under Clough

We have got rid of high earners who have done nowt in three seasons since they left us except for Commons

Good quality youth players are coming through

Players who want to play for us are coming in

A young team where most will still be here in 3 years

A team who do not give in (even against Shrewsbury they fought back to 3-2) and this was not the first team playing due to injuries resting and internationl breaks.

We can grind out results which lets be honest we could not do under BD or Jewell in premiership and now Clough has pretty much the squad he wants we are starting to.

We are 3rd

reduced the wage bill

Under Jewell and Davies worst team in premier league.

Under Jewell and Davies signed the biggest bunch of wasters in one go on ridiculous money

Jewell promising a return straight to premiership at point of losing floating around relegation and CLough kept us up.

Clough has neither made us worse since being here and the signs are now showing in respect of improvement see above.

LETS NOT FORGET WHEN CLOUGH SIGNED HE STATED THIS WAS A BIG JOB AS A LOT NEEDED TO BE DONE. THIS WAS NOT A 2YR 5YR PROJECT FOR SECURITY AND STABILITY WITH PREMIERSHIP FOOTBALL THIS WAS A 10YR PLAN AND IT WILL TAKE TIME. FANS WERE TOLD THIS AT THE BEGINNING AND HE HAS NOT LIED.

[EastKentRam]

Clueless, daft comments, depressive fed up of the constant crap after a win:mad:

Under Clough

We have got rid of high earners who have done nowt in three seasons since they left us except for Commons

Good quality youth players are coming through

Players who want to play for us are coming in

A young team where most will still be here in 3 years

A team who do not give in (even against Shrewsbury they fought back to 3-2) and this was not the first team playing due to injuries resting and internationl breaks.

We can grind out results which lets be honest we could not do under BD or Jewell in premiership and now Clough has pretty much the squad he wants we are starting to.

We are 3rd

reduced the wage bill

Under Jewell and Davies worst team in premier league.

Under Jewell and Davies signed the biggest bunch of wasters in one go on ridiculous money

Jewell promising a return straight to premiership at point of losing floating around relegation and CLough kept us up.

Clough has neither made us worse since being here and the signs are now showing in respect of improvement see above.

LETS NOT FORGET WHEN CLOUGH SIGNED HE STATED THIS WAS A BIG JOB AS A LOT NEEDED TO BE DONE. THIS WAS NOT A 2YR 5YR PROJECT FOR SECURITY AND STABILITY WITH PREMIERSHIP FOOTBALL THIS WAS A 10YR PLAN AND IT WILL TAKE TIME. FANS WERE TOLD THIS AT THE BEGINNING AND HE HAS NOT LIED.

Under Clough

-Apart from a spell last year played boring, negative football

-Have achieved lowly league positions and been involved in relegation battles

-Bought in average players that are no improvement on the over paid crap we had before

-Had constant injuries to our better players

Grinding out results? If it wasnt for two Steve Davies wonder goals we'd have one point after two games. We didnt grind out anything today, if Watford finished the opportunities they had they would have won the game.

Was funny listening to Clough after the game, his quote something along the lines of 'we actually played well first half at Watford last season', 3-0 down and tore to pieces, for Clough though that probably counts as 'well'.