Hucknall Ram Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 3 wins for us and 4 defeats for scunny and we are safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 we're safe but to be fair we were never in danger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi1Kenobi0 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 we're safe but to be fair we were never in danger I like your confidence! All it would have taken was for Scunny or Sheff Utd to get their act together and then it would have got interesting. Still our freefall from the dizzy heights has been pretty staggering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 We're still not out of it. I'm no doom-mongerer, because actually part of me wants us to be relegated (I have my good reasons to say that, too), but really, 2 wins in 20 is still a very very poor record. I hope the Swansea game is a corner turned but we won't know that until we've played another home game and another away game, and until then, our season is still up in the air. Because if we haven't, then we're going backwards fast enough to finish in the bottom 3. It can still happen. Either way I don't think we'll secure our "safety" for a while yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 We're still not out of it. I'm no doom-mongerer, because actually part of me wants us to be relegated (I have my good reasons to say that, too), but really, 2 wins in 20 is still a very very poor record. I hope the Swansea game is a corner turned but we won't know that until we've played another home game and another away game, and until then, our season is still up in the air. Because if we haven't, then we're going backwards fast enough to finish in the bottom 3. It can still happen. Either way I don't think we'll secure our "safety" for a while yet. What can possibly be your two good reasons for wanting Derby County in league 1. I dont think Clough is very good but the last thing our club needs is to be down there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi1Kenobi0 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 We're still not out of it. I'm no doom-mongerer, because actually part of me wants us to be relegated (I have my good reasons to say that, too). Relegation would be an absolute, incontrovertable disaster for this club. I can't think of one good thing it would bring, apart from perhaps more freebie tickets for fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I don't see how relegation could be any more a disaster than its been one of the best things that's happened to Norwich, Leeds, Forest and Leicester in recent years. The teams that come up next season are automatically next year's promoton candidates. That's about one of the only things you can predict in this crazy league. We've reached that stage now that its clear that if we do stay up, we're just due another season like this. The sooner we get out inevitable relegation to the third tier the better, IMO. It's our turn next. It could be a disaster if we stay down there too long, yes, but I don't see how the current era is anything but a disaster anyway. I also predict that we won't return to the top-flight until we've had a spell in the third-tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I don't see how relegation could be any more a disaster than its been one of the best things that's happened to Norwich, Leeds, Forest and Leicester in recent years. The teams that come up next season are automatically next year's promoton candidates. That's about one of the only things you can predict in this crazy league. We've reached that stage now that its clear that if we do stay up, we're just due another season like this. The sooner we get out inevitable relegation to the third tier the better, IMO. It's our turn next. It could be a disaster if we stay down there too long, yes, but I don't see how the current era is anything but a disaster anyway. I also predict that we won't return to the top-flight until we've had a spell in the third-tier. Rubbish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Them clubs went down and spent money though. What about Plymouth, Charlton, Sheff wed, Colchester, Luton and Southend. For every good example there are some really bad ones. Its just a pure gamble going down, some do well some go down further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Rubbish! I appreciate it's my opinion and I know it's radical but all the same.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Them clubs went down and spent money though. What about Plymouth, Charlton, Sheff wed, Colchester, Luton and Southend. For every good example there are some really bad ones. Its just a pure gamble going down, some do well some go down further. Apart from Charlton and possibly Sheffield Wednesday, none of those clubs are remotely like Derby County. A lot of those clubs belong in the third tier or even the fourth tier. Sheffield Wednesday have done the whole third-tier thing before, and yes, they've suffered for it. That's one example of it not working too well, but having said that, it's not destroyed them. The best example is Bradford, for them it really has killed them. But I don't think the same would happen to us. But Southampton and Charlton, if they went up, I'd put money on either to have an excellent season after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi1Kenobi0 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I don't see how relegation could be any more a disaster than its been one of the best things that's happened to Norwich, Leeds, Forest and Leicester in recent years. The teams that come up next season are automatically next year's promoton candidates. That's about one of the only things you can predict in this crazy league. We've reached that stage now that its clear that if we do stay up, we're just due another season like this. The sooner we get out inevitable relegation to the third tier the better, IMO. It's our turn next. It could be a disaster if we stay down there too long, yes, but I don't see how the current era is anything but a disaster anyway. I also predict that we won't return to the top-flight until we've had a spell in the third-tier. Just because of events that have happened AFTER their promotion back to the 2nd tier bears no relation to events that MAY happen if we ever got relegated and if we ever got promoted again. I could just as easily give the example of Sheff Weds, Charlton and even Bradford. I have Forest and Leeds friends and they all confirm relegation to the 3rd tier was a disaster on many levels. For DCFC relegation would mean: Lower gates and income. Failure to attract new investment and sponsors. Failure to attract any calibre of player (think worse than now). Some of the good players we have now may want out. I'm not sure how our relegation is inevitable either. This league is full of surprises and although IMO we will not gain promotion with Clough and GSE that is a far cry from believing that League two will somehow purge the soul of DCFC and is the panacea of all our current woes. *Just noticed you'd mentioned the clubs I'd mentioned while I was typing. Just remember Sky money has changed all notion of where clubs "belong". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I appreciate it's my opinion and I know it's radical but all the same.... It's pretty radical dude, and i can see the method in your madness but, can't see it happening myself. I'd mark us in the same bracket as the Southamptons, Charltons, Leicesters, Forests and Norwich, but i think we'll do the rebuilding within the league we occupy now. I can see us hovering around in this league for quite some time though, 5 - 10 seasons. Which ain't no biggie and is much more appealing than playing down in league 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi1Kenobi0 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I appreciate it's my opinion and I know it's radical but all the same.... Remember Duracell terms like "radical" and "progressive" are the preserve of the politician which should let you know u are on the wrong track fella!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkRam Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I'm not dismissing your theory bunny but I have to ask, where does it end? Not so long ago Southampton were an established PL side and you could argue, as you are, they needed to go down to get a kick up the arse to propel them further up the PL. Ultimately that back fired, as it has with many. What is to say we wont emulate this and fall like a rock to league two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Just because of events that have happened AFTER their promotion back to the 2nd tier bears no relation to events that MAY happen if we ever got relegated and if we ever got promoted again. I could just as easily give the example of Sheff Weds, Charlton and even Bradford. I have Forest and Leeds friends and they all confirm relegation to the 3rd tier was a disaster on many levels. For DCFC relegation would mean: Lower gates and income. Failure to attract new investment and sponsors. Failure to attract any calibre of player (think worse than now). Some of the good players we have now may want out. I'm not sure how our relegation is inevitable either. This league is full of surprises and although IMO we will not gain promotion with Clough and GSE that is a far cry from believing that League two will somehow purge the soul of DCFC and is the panacea of all our current woes. *Just noticed you'd mentioned the clubs I'd mentioned while I was typing. Just remember Sky money has changed all notion of where clubs "belong". All good points, and yes, part of me agrees with all that. But it just doesn't happen very often that you get a side lingering around the Championship's bottom half before magically becoming good. I know Wolves and Stoke have done it, but just look at Coventry and Ipswich. I'd much rather support Charlton than Coventry, I can't think of a fate worse than being a Coventry fan, I really can't. I'd rather be relegated than become that. I get what you say about season tickets, sponsors, etc, but those are short-term issues. The long-term issue is a confidence crisis, which several managers have alluded to and every single manager since the turn of the millenium has failed to cure properly. This squad inherited it from the last squad. The first Clough squad inherited it from the Paul Jewell era. That side inherited it from Billy Davies' team. Billy Davies managed to sweep it under the carpet for one season before it coming out again in the Premier League, a problem he had inherited from Phil Brown and the Three Amigoes era. I know my relegation-to-the-third-tier plan is a bit dodgy and it's just my opinion, and it might not work and it might not be right. But this confidence thing with the club is fundamental. You can't argue that it's not there. You could even argue it began with Jim Smith, but it was definitely there with Phil Brown. Ever since then we've been incredibly eratic. How this club shakes it off is where the debate is in my opinion. You and the board say stability in this league. I say relegation. Others say investment in playing staff. I hope there's another alternative... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi1Kenobi0 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Mmmm I can see it a tad more from your perspective if we are talking about the ethereal quality of confidence. It seems to me what you are getting at but not actually saying is that you propose a belt and braces approach. That relegation may force our hand to another way i.e. use of more academy players, perhaps new owners and a chance for the majority of the current squad to gain confidence by winning a league they should dominate. The thing is though you are focusing on the symptom i.e. confidence and not the causes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Mmmm I can see it a tad more from your perspective if we are talking about the ethereal quality of confidence. It seems to me what you are getting at but not actually saying is that you propose a belt and braces approach. That relegation may force our hand to another way i.e. use of more academy players, perhaps new owners and a chance for the majority of the current squad to gain confidence by winning a league they should dominate. The thing is though you are focusing on the symptom i.e. confidence and not the causes. Yes, that's what the benefits are. I think we've spent far too long trying to find the causes. We've just got to start with a blank canvas. We've tried changing manager, we've tried changing the playing staff. Neither have worked. Perhaps if we changed leagues, and started all over again....that's my thinking anyway. I'm not convinced I'm totally mad anyway :redface: I'm not saying relegation is good, I'm just saying it might be good for us in our current set of circumstances. I think I've done enough to justify my madness now anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramalama Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I can't think of a fate worse than being a Coventry fan, I really can't. I'd rather be relegated than become that. I agree with you there, Coventry haven't finished in the top 6 OF ANY DIVISION since about 1971. I thik GSE's plan is to turn us into the next Coventry..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Duracell isn't totally insane in thinking that relegation wouldn't be a disaster.. If anything it can be a job to rebuild the club.. Unless investment comes we're destined to struggle in this league, buying bosman/experienced players who are pretty much journeymen, not to mention the huge influx of loan players.. Dropping down a league will give us a chance to finally rid of the dead wood, focus more on youngsters and be able to rebuild confidence and actually build a team of permanent players.. When Forest got relegated they bought in some quality youth players from the likes of Yeovil etc.. And they're still at the club now. Players like O'Brien, Cywka, Bailey, Brayford, Addison, Fielding (if he signs), Pringle, Callum Ball would all be given more opportunities to play.. They'd all benefit from regular first team football and with the help of a few wisemen (ie. Ricky Lambert - Soton) who are available we could easily bounce back and be a lot more prepared for NPC football just like Norwich. Also, we'd be a very attractive proposition for Big Clubs to loan youths.. Big stadium, lots of fans, winning football etc.. I'd take the risk to do this than turn into Coventry City put it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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