inglorious01 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Just wondering, of the permanent signings Clough has made so far, which ones could potentially take Derby County forward and make them a top 6 Championship side capable of making the playoffs? In my opinion, Brayford, Bailey and Cwyka all have a lot of future potential and do fit the bill. Gareth Roberts- bottom 6 to mid table championship player at best. Dean Moxey- same as Gareth Roberts. Ben Pringle- League 1 standard. Connor Doyle-League 1 standard, maybe Championship in time. Sean Barker- Ok now but already proving to be a bit slow so not a long term prospect. Good player though. Dave Martin- not even given a chance. Lee Croft- out of favour with Clough. Chris Porter- mid table Championship at best. Not sure if I've missed anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Just wondering, of the permanent signings Clough has made so far, which ones could potentially take Derby County forward and make them a top 6 Championship side capable of making the playoffs? In my opinion, Brayford, Bailey and Cwyka all have a lot of future potential and do fit the bill. Gareth Roberts- bottom 6 to mid table championship player at best. Dean Moxey- same as Gareth Roberts. Ben Pringle- League 1 standard. Connor Doyle-League 1 standard, maybe Championship in time. Sean Barker- Ok now but already proving to be a bit slow so not a long term prospect. Good player though. Dave Martin- not even given a chance. Lee Croft- out of favour with Clough. Chris Porter- mid table Championship at best. Not sure if I've missed anyone? I think we should all learn to listen to what the main man tells us.He says that we're having to take a chance on lower league players in the hope they can make it in 2 years.Too many seem to want instant results.I remember years ago a top manager (can't remember who) talked about the problems of introducing younger players.He said you could manage 1,2 at the same time was difficult and anything above this was pushing your luck.He also added that it was difficult to introduce them into a struggling side and that knowing when to pull them out of the firing line was an art in itself. For those who buy into the strategy,then you should show the patience that it demands and ride out the fluctuations in form.For those that don't,then perhaps the ire should be directed to a different quarter. I'd probably (in time) agree with your 3 selections,but wouldn't rule Barker out,as I'm far from convinced that he's fully fit.Probably a bit too soon to start judging some of the others,especially Doyle-remember the 2 year caveat. If you want to judge Nigel's ability in the market,then tot up the cost of his signings and assess what you think their total sale value might be. I'm sure we could all come up with established championship players that could push us up to the top 6.I'll take Danny Graham for starters.Now start plucking the lower league players out of the hat that you would sign (for a relative pittance) that would be top 6 players.Not so easy is it? This isn't a criticism of your post,as you're probably only asking an honest question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inglorious01 Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 I'm just worried that in 2 years of Clough being here, 3 players have been brought in that could take us forward whilst the rest do no more than make us mid table championship at best. That's not entirely Cloughs fault, but even with the loose change he has had to spend on players, a lot of his signings have been less than convincing. I stretch my finances to pay for a season ticket every year, how long is this rebuilding process expected to take? I don't regard myself as a fairweather fan. I've had a season ticket for 15 years now. But at least Billy Davies told us about a "3 year plan" when he was in charge. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 ah but you have to remember that Billy is full of ****. I am happy with most of the players signed but would be nice to add a couple of proven quality players to help things along. I think that Ben Davies will turn out to be a very astute signing in the weeks to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Barker only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 It's hard to judge clough when he hasn't spent a million on a player, I believe I good top 6 player should cost a million pound however Clough hasn't had that, I believe the players he has signed all have exceeded their valuation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClement Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Our strengths are all in midfield, which conversely means that we concede a lot of goals and dont score many. If these signings are going to improve with experience and are championshiop standard -fine. But I am concerned that gradually we are losing the best players and replacing them with players who are not championship standard. The boards accounting will not work if we lose 20% off the gates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I'm just worried that in 2 years of Clough being here, 3 players have been brought in that could take us forward whilst the rest do no more than make us mid table championship at best. That's not entirely Cloughs fault, but even with the loose change he has had to spend on players, a lot of his signings have been less than convincing. I stretch my finances to pay for a season ticket every year, how long is this rebuilding process expected to take? I don't regard myself as a fairweather fan. I've had a season ticket for 15 years now. But at least Billy Davies told us about a "3 year plan" when he was in charge. :confused: I'd half guessed this was the thrust of your question.BD may have been given a 3 year plan,but he did spend rather a lot in the first year and I don't remember him having been asked to fish in the lower divisions,or bring through young players. If you're having to trawl the lower divisions,possibly being allowed to spend up to £400k per player (and somewhat less on others),then what percentage of players should you reasonably be expected to unearth of top 6 champioship class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malmoram Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Just wondering, of the permanent signings Clough has made so far, which ones could potentially take Derby County forward and make them a top 6 Championship side capable of making the playoffs? In my opinion, Brayford, Bailey and Cwyka all have a lot of future potential and do fit the bill. Gareth Roberts- bottom 6 to mid table championship player at best. Dean Moxey- same as Gareth Roberts. Ben Pringle- League 1 standard. Connor Doyle-League 1 standard, maybe Championship in time. Sean Barker- Ok now but already proving to be a bit slow so not a long term prospect. Good player though. Dave Martin- not even given a chance. Lee Croft- out of favour with Clough. Chris Porter- mid table Championship at best. Not sure if I've missed anyone? It is a difficult question to answer as it is all about the team not the individuals. Thinking back to Clough senior days with Derby and our friends down the road, and also some of the great Liverpool and Leeds sides. They all had some players who were considered to be at best average, but they did a specific job as part of the team. If this type of facility was about then they would have been slated week in and week out. I think you are being a tad harsh on Barker who has obviously been carrying an injury and also the younger players; particularly Doyle. I am not sure how you can expect someone to be taken from college football in the US and immediately shine in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoneedshuls Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 For players to bring in try. Waghorn, ambrose, Ayala, sordell and maybe James vaughen (everton lad) or even Kevin phillips. Oh and st. Ledger and de leit and super Frank fielding. Just 4 of those and well be up there challenging for top 6. Oh and barker brayford (at RB) only quality cloughs bought in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampant Rob Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Just out of interest, how many Blackpool players of last season would you consider top 6. Charlie Adam is the only one I would. It's not about the stars its about getting a team together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 For players to bring in try. Waghorn, ambrose, Ayala, sordell and maybe James vaughen (everton lad) or even Kevin phillips. Oh and st. Ledger and de leit and super Frank fielding. Just 4 of those and well be up there challenging for top 6. Oh and barker brayford (at RB) only quality cloughs bought in! apart from Sordell you're looking at a lot of wages being spent, even on waghorn.. he signed for 3million, guessing his wage would equate to a good amount. The ones after the 'oh' are more likely to be on a lesser wage. St Ledger HAS to be on less than 5k a week(pne's wage cap), so possible if we wanted to pay the fee. also would look at who he has brought in to what we paid and what I would say they're realistically worth as a player (contract not holding any bearing on these numbers) Roberts - brought for free, worth around 100k Moxey - brought for 300k, worth around 500k Pringle - brought for free, worth around 100k Doyle - brought for free, worth around 150k (potential) Barker - brought for 900k, worth around 1.5million. Martin - brought for 200k, worth around 200k Croft - brought for free, worth around 100k Porter - brought for 300k, worth around 100k (injuries) Davies - brought for 350k, worth around 500k(probably more, but wouldn't like to say this is what they originally wanted before the transfer request) Bailey - brought for 400k, worth around 800k Brayford - brought for 400k, wroth around 1.5million Cwyka - brought for free, worth around 800k Buxton - brought for free, worth around 200k Deeney - brought for free, worth around 50k Anderson - brought for free, worth around 200k some people might not agree, but i've tried to be realistic with the numbers that makes 13 players that have exceeded their buying price, 1 who's about as good as what we paid and another who unfortunately down to an injury is worth less, however if he was fit I would have no qualms about putting him up, when he first signed he looked like a real prospect however a month into his career here and it was ruined. it also means we've spent 2.45million and we would re-coup 6.8million on the same players (if my maths is correct) although you would have to take contract in to thought..etc but still no-one could argue that for the money we've spent we have done badly, the money we've spent is probably covered by the Barker and Brayford signings alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Just wondering, of the permanent signings Clough has made so far, which ones could potentially take Derby County forward and make them a top 6 Championship side capable of making the playoffs? In my opinion, Brayford, Bailey and Cwyka all have a lot of future potential and do fit the bill. Gareth Roberts- bottom 6 to mid table championship player at best. Dean Moxey- same as Gareth Roberts. Ben Pringle- League 1 standard. Connor Doyle-League 1 standard, maybe Championship in time. Sean Barker- Ok now but already proving to be a bit slow so not a long term prospect. Good player though. Dave Martin- not even given a chance. Lee Croft- out of favour with Clough. Chris Porter- mid table Championship at best. Not sure if I've missed anyone? Bar Pringle and Doyle and possibly Martin, all the above players have proved at some point in their careers that they are more than capable of being top 6 Championship players; and some of them for Derby, in fact. His signings are far from bad; almost commendable, I might say, for what he's spent. His signings are not the problem, it's what he does once he's signed them that worries me. Gareth Roberts was called "Mr Consistent" at Donny Rovers, widely tipped as the best footballing side in the division. They were genuinely sorry to see him leave. The fact he's so awful for us now is deeply worrying. Nigel has a concerning ability to make decent players crap. Roberts, Croft, Leacock, Bywater....the list goes on. Shaun Barker has trained played this season, and when fit, his lack of pace doesn't matter. His chant is true: if he's fit, you never will beat Shaun Barker. Yet we're playing him when we have Leacock and Addison and it looks like we'll bring in a midfielder and a striker before we bring in a Centre Half. Even then, I don't think we're about to give Barker any recovery time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Steve Davis was 750k wasn't he? Just found it: "Davies signed a three year deal with Derby on June 12, 2008.[2] As the two clubs could not agree a fee for Davies, on the 26th August 2008 a tribunal ordered Derby to pay Tranmere up to £725,000 in compensation. This figure comprises an initial fee of £275,000, an extra £250,000 based on appearances and an additional £200,000 if Derby win promotion to the Premiership within 3 years." That's 275k then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Steve Davis was 750k wasn't he? Just found it: "Davies signed a three year deal with Derby on June 12, 2008.[2] As the two clubs could not agree a fee for Davies, on the 26th August 2008 a tribunal ordered Derby to pay Tranmere up to £725,000 in compensation. This figure comprises an initial fee of £275,000, an extra £250,000 based on appearances and an additional £200,000 if Derby win promotion to the Premiership within 3 years." That's 275k then! S.Davies was a Jewell and Pearson transfer anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Just out of interest, how many Blackpool players of last season would you consider top 6. Charlie Adam is the only one I would. It's not about the stars its about getting a team together. David Vaughan and maybe Ian Evatt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Clough has made some decent signings in Moxey, Brayford, Bailey, Cywka and Davies IMO.. They fit the bill for cheap players who can make the step up.. However all bar Bailey had a reputation of some sort, therefore I can hardly say they were 'quality finds'.. Looking back on Cloughs signings.. In particular Porter, Anderson, Barker, Lee Croft, Gareth Roberts etc. Were all signed on a reputation.. All have had a decent season somewhere, but none of them IMO are actually consistant enough to be classed as good players.. I might be slightly unfair on Barker. Buxton, Deeney, Pringle Clough already knew about.. The real suprise ones for me was Martin, Bailey and Doyle as I don't think I'm alone here in saying I knew nothing of them before.. Bailey IMO is class! OK so here goes the main point of my post.. I think Clough lacks the contacts/scouting system to really bring in top players for cheap.. It can be done, the reason we're struggling in the transfer market is Clough is placing all his eggs in one basket with players that have a reputation or had a reputation.. Moore, Hooper etc. I'll give 3 examples of managers with good contacts and what it can get you in a transfer market.. You really don't need to spend $5mill to get promotion. George Burley - Smith, Rasiak, Bisgaard, Idiakez.. Aside from Smith who had heard of the others? They were superb IMO. For Hearts and Soton he also brought in some class players.. Roberto Martinez - Swansea - Ferrie Bodie, Jordi Gomez, Angel Rangel, Jason Scotland etc. Again Scotland was well known up in Scotland, however the other 3 came from abroad and are brilliant players. Steve Coppell - Reading - Doyle, Long, Convey, Bikey, Matejosky, Federici all came from abroad. Kitson, Ingimmarsson, Lita, S.Hunt, Shorey, Sonko all from the lower leagues.. Sidwell and Harper from Arsenal reserves.. That team that achieved the record 106 points was put together through quality scouting and less than $1.5mill in total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Unfair to mention Roberto Martinez really as he already knew many of the players that he signed and the others were already in England/Scotland and well documented. The other two I agree with, though Burley didn't use those contacts when at Crystal Palace. Perhaps it just differs who they manage to find when at certain clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perky1106 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Brayford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_ram Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 apart from Sordell you're looking at a lot of wages being spent, even on waghorn.. he signed for 3million, guessing his wage would equate to a good amount. The ones after the 'oh' are more likely to be on a lesser wage. St Ledger HAS to be on less than 5k a week(pne's wage cap), so possible if we wanted to pay the fee. also would look at who he has brought in to what we paid and what I would say they're realistically worth as a player (contract not holding any bearing on these numbers) Roberts - brought for free, worth around 100k Moxey - brought for 300k, worth around 500k Pringle - brought for free, worth around 100k Doyle - brought for free, worth around 150k (potential) Barker - brought for 900k, worth around 1.5million. Martin - brought for 200k, worth around 200k Croft - brought for free, worth around 100k Porter - brought for 300k, worth around 100k (injuries) Davies - brought for 350k, worth around 500k(probably more, but wouldn't like to say this is what they originally wanted before the transfer request) Bailey - brought for 400k, worth around 800k Brayford - brought for 400k, wroth around 1.5million Cwyka - brought for free, worth around 800k Buxton - brought for free, worth around 200k Deeney - brought for free, worth around 50k Anderson - brought for free, worth around 200k some people might not agree, but i've tried to be realistic with the numbers that makes 13 players that have exceeded their buying price, 1 who's about as good as what we paid and another who unfortunately down to an injury is worth less, however if he was fit I would have no qualms about putting him up, when he first signed he looked like a real prospect however a month into his career here and it was ruined. it also means we've spent 2.45million and we would re-coup 6.8million on the same players (if my maths is correct) although you would have to take contract in to thought..etc but still no-one could argue that for the money we've spent we have done badly, the money we've spent is probably covered by the Barker and Brayford signings alone. I don't know about your username, but them valuations sure are Ambitious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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