Student Protest

[Perky1106]

I didn't go down to London because I didn't believe in the purpose of the protests.

But some idiots have decided to take on the police.

Do you think tuition fees should rise?

[Srg]

Don't know about you, but everyone my age on facebook are royally p*ssing me off about this. All of them have no idea about politics but are acting like they are supporting a bloody football team. Not forgetting they are all already at uni so should be quite pleased about it, as they shouldn't effect us. Should make us more valuable.

[Alex W]

I didn't go down to London because I didn't believe in the purpose of the protests.

But some idiots have decided to take on the police.

Do you think tuition fees should rise?

Nope, but they were always going to rise with the economic climate as it is. Unfortunately for us.

There are always people taking on the police in almost every protest like this. A few idiots as always. Although sometimes the police do start it.

[lyndsey]

they're high enough already.

once tuition fees rise alot of people from working class background are going to struggle to afford to go. what happens then?? more forgeiners comming in and taking jobs??

is it true that they are only increasing fees for British students, sure i heard that international students fees will stay the same..

in a way i was lucky as my fees were paid for so i only have a small student loan that i pay back each month

[Srg]

International fees are already around £9k

[Perky1106]

For those who can't afford the fees out of their own pocket a grant will be made. But a degree is a degree and will get you a job so you can pay back the money.

Higher education is a privilege and not a right. Tution fees are not alienating working class students, that's down to other factors. But the thing is, everyone who gets a degree gets a degree and the key to a well paid job, regardless of their background while they were an undergraduate.

If the protest was at the banks' HQs I'd be happy to go down and smash some windows.

But the coalition has to make cuts in a system that relies on banks, thus they can't be taxed heavily. So they've had to make students scapegoats. It's unfortunate but we're the only people they can screw over.

Scotland still get their education free though, with money from English taxpayers. Hmmmmmmmm.

[Alex W]

The debt is too much for me, that was one of the reasons I pulled out this year.

While I have no doubt that I could succeed in a job after Uni, the amount of money i'd be paying back for that amount of time doesn't seem worth it.

If it gets that much more, i'd probably not go at all. We'll have to see.

[alexxxxx]

they're high enough already.

once tuition fees rise alot of people from working class background are going to struggle to afford to go. what happens then?? more forgeiners comming in and taking jobs??

is it true that they are only increasing fees for British students, sure i heard that international students fees will stay the same..

in a way i was lucky as my fees were paid for so i only have a small student loan that i pay back each month

basically the gov doesn't pay a penny to the uni for international students - the international students pay the full amount ,whilst home/eu students pay a proportion of what it costs and then the local authority or government pays the rest (cant remember which). the government in its wisdom has decided to cut uni funding by 40+% so fees have to rise. i should imagine international students will have to pay more too (they are essentially a cash-cow for unis).

if you don't want to pay you could alternatively learn german and go to germany for free. or pay much less and go to ireland

[smiffy]

Fkm, bone idle so and so's, get a job:rolleyes:

[Dangerous]

I had some sympathy for the protest as fees are going to be increased,but after the scenes ive watched on tv all sympathy has gone.To see a fire extinguisher be thrown off a building aimed at the heads of police is disgraceful.

the students involved should be locked up.

[Kris Marina]

I'm quite happy. Staffs Uni have said, we will put fees up to £6000 but you'll get an extra £4k in bursaries each year. I'm better off a grand a year. Ta very much.

[Perky1106]

It wasn't students who started being *****. It was the Socialist Workers Party. But students joined in and were cheering. These are students who currently have £6,000 money subsidised into their education every year. It's the younger generation who should be worried.

[Hartley Hare]

For those who can't afford the fees out of their own pocket a grant will be made. But a degree is a degree and will get you a job so you can pay back the money.

Higher education is a privilege and not a right. Tution fees are not alienating working class students, that's down to other factors. But the thing is, everyone who gets a degree gets a degree and the key to a well paid job, regardless of their background while they were an undergraduate.

If the protest was at the banks' HQs I'd be happy to go down and smash some windows.

But the coalition has to make cuts in a system that relies on banks, thus they can't be taxed heavily. So they've had to make students scapegoats. It's unfortunate but we're the only people they can screw over.

Scotland still get their education free though, with money from English taxpayers. Hmmmmmmmm.

Sorry Joe, can't agree with much of this, but maybe we're coming at it from different perspectives.

Saying that HE is a privilege is close to saying that intelligence itself is a privilege. Access to HE should never, ever be reliant on access to funding, in my opinion. It should be available to those with the potential to make the most of it, and degrees should be offered in worthwhile subjects - not Coronation Street or Lady Gaga, for goodness sakes. And a degree is no longer the key to a good, well-paid job. In fact, a degree doesn't necessarily get you a job, full stop. Lots of reports around quoting figures for graduate employment which show this to be true. And if you do get a job, under the new funding proposals, you'll be paying over 50% of your income back in PAYE, NI, student loan repayments and the mandatory pension contributions which the governmnt are phasing in over the next few years.

We should have an environment in this country where capable people are encouraged to acheive their potential. Saddling them with debt that they can never pay off really doesn't tick that box as far as I'm concerned, it's a complete dis-incentive. My son is likely to go to uni in 2011. I say likely to, because he was planning to take a gap year and earn some money before going to uni so that his eventual debt would be smaller. However, because of the funding changes coming in for 2012, there's really no way he'd be able to earn enough money to compensate for the effects of that, so it's uni this year or not at all, realistically. So all his plans are now blown out of the water. And that of course has an effect on our family finances, as he'll now probably need some additional support from the bank of Mu and Dad. Although quite where I'm supposed to find that extra funding from at such short notice, especially when VAT is rising in January, NI is increasing for people in employment and prices in general are continuing to increase but pay is falling in real terms (thanks to below-inflation pay rises - and I haven't had a pay rise for 3 years), I really don't know.

There was an article in the Daily Mail yesterday (it's a Tory rag, so it's points are valid IMO to say the least) that illustrated how much families would have to save, starting now, in order to fully fund their child's uni education. The figure was £405 a month. For 15 years. To give you over £120,000 by the time your child reaches uni age. And that's assuming that you can get interest of 6% on your savings. Now just where exactly is that supposed to come from? It's effectively like paying for a second mortgage. I know people who are moving house to free-up the equity in their homes, solely to fund their kids university education, when their previous plan was for that equity to be used when they retire, potentially to pay for a care home should it be needed - so they'll now be short when they reach pension age and they have no time or free income available to make up that shortfall. It's all completely wrong. It has the potential to completely change the social landscape of the country for generations to come.

Here's the link to the Daily Mail article, some interesting figures :- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/article-1328253/Can-family-afford-university-fees-challenge.html

I absolutely support the student protests, it's is their right to protest peacefully in a free democratic society like the one we're supposed to be able to enjoy here, but of course there's always some group or other looking for a way to hijack a peaceful protest and make mischief to their own ends. That seems to be what's happened here. Can't imagine why the police wouldn't have been prepared for such a thing happening.

And don't get me started on Scotland - free prescriptions, free HE education, free parking in hospitals, free care for the elderly, and I'M PAYING FOR IT!!!!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH MR BLAIR!!!!!!! :mad::mad::mad:

[uttoxram75]

Hartley,

excellent post mate, good points well made.

Your last paragraph...

And don't get me started on Scotland - free prescriptions, free HE education, free parking in hospitals, free care for the elderly, and I'M PAYING FOR IT!!!!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH MR BLAIR!!!!!!!

Should we not be demanding the same for England instead of moaning about it.....?

[Hartley Hare]

Hartley,

excellent post mate, good points well made.

Your last paragraph...

And don't get me started on Scotland - free prescriptions, free HE education, free parking in hospitals, free care for the elderly, and I'M PAYING FOR IT!!!!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH MR BLAIR!!!!!!!

Should we not be demanding the same for England instead of moaning about it.....?

Yes, Uttox, we should. I'm right behind you.....

If I thought engagement in our democratic process would make any difference on that particular issue, then I'd certainly engage. I didn't vote for Blair or his party, I don't agree with Devolution as I feel it weakens the Union on so many levels, but I still end up dealing with the consequences and paying for his on-going financial commitments - that's our democracy, and that's fair enough as far as it goes. So i did engage and it didn't get me the result I wanted - again, that's our democratic process. I don't see any mileage in 1 person lobbying any MP for any change to such a thing as Devolution. But I'm surprised there's not more outcry about it. Maybe it only gets reported in the right-wing press, I don't know, but there doesn't seem to be any real public "will" in England for any change. Or maybe we're just to accustomed to having to put up with stuff. But the Labour party don't want to change anything because they've go too many Scottish MP's and so don't want to upset the Scottish voters, and the Tory's have no mandate to make changes to the whole devolution issue because they have insufficient representation in Scotland and don't want to risk alienating further the Scottish voters. The SNP are quite happy for Westminster (i.e. us) to be underwriting their spending plans as they consider that we "stole" North Sea Oil from them. So it's payback time, as far as they're concerned. And Blair caved in (not like him, I know) to their demands and the demands from Scottish MP's in his own party.

As far as uni fees are concerned, how it can be justified that English students pay more in Scotland than French, Belgian, Italian, Portuguese, etc? Presumably the EU means more to Scotland that the UK.

Actually, I don't mind if we have to pay for all of that stuff in England or not. I'm not convinced that there is enough money in tax revenue to pay for all of that for the nation as a whole. So why then should Scotland get funding for it but not the rest of us? As long as we all pay the same for the same things, I'd be happy. That's what the United Kingdom is supposed to be. Level playing field for all. Don't see why that should be at all difficult for any national politician to argue against, but local politics (which is what Devloution is really all about) is full of self-interest, no thought for the bigger picture for the nation as a whole. Funny how we're regarded the world over as a place of fairness and equality and where playing by the rules is sacrosanct, and yet we here know the reality is different. If the Scots want independence then give it to them - full independence and everything that that implies. If they don't, then they should get the same deal in Dumfries as they get down the road in Carlisle.

I've said too much. Rant over. It's supposed to be a thread about student protests. Someone feel free to bring it back on track, by all means.

[Leeds Ram]

highering student fees is a disgrace, adding that the cut in funding to universities means that some of the top universities i.e cambridge, oxford kings college are talking about going private. The level of debt we ahve isn't that unusual for england, it is around the same as it has been for 200 years. They are destroying the education system and the big society is where mr cameron can relinquish responsibility from his own government. My sister protested peacefully among the 52,000 decent worried students, i am going to be hit by this and am now very worried as a result. The conservatives are anti collectivist and the liberal democrats have sold out, the only result we are going to see is mass unemployment which isn't going to be mopped up by the private sector and more strikes and protests

[Dangerous]

fees should increase,as everybody else is paying for the recession.Students shouldnt be any different.I agree that to increase it threefold is wrong,but a protest by people who arent contributing to the economy is also wrong.I wouldnt take any notice of the jobless protesting about cuts in benefits,as I will not take any notice of students who protest.

I would hope that any student involved in the violence and destruction are duly kicked out of their colleges for good.

[Leeds Ram]

Dangerous actually they are contributing, becasue they want to learn more they provide hundreds if not thousands of jobs, the recession has long since been over and it isn't right to price people out of further education, soceity needs learned people who can fulfill the top roles of the world. This governemnt is making sure that people like me who work hard will come out with debt up to their eyeballs and struggling to make ends meat.

[Hartley Hare]

basically the gov doesn't pay a penny to the uni for international students - the international students pay the full amount ,whilst home/eu students pay a proportion of what it costs and then the local authority or government pays the rest (cant remember which). the government in its wisdom has decided to cut uni funding by 40+% so fees have to rise. i should imagine international students will have to pay more too (they are essentially a cash-cow for unis).

Seems a reasonable comment. However.......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11724431

So the higher fees paid by home students will be used to prevent an increase in the fees paid by international students. So who's the cash cow now?

AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!

[Perky1106]

The problem is far too many people are going to University.

Everyone should be able to go to University, if they want to and they have the intelligence.

But there are too many courses that are not academic and not going to provide graduates with appropiate skills.

Also many people go to University for the social side.