On course for 80+ points

[archied]

13 minutes ago, RamNut said:

The Question still stands

 

Shots and shots on target don't give the full picture there are also times when we create very good chances where the player is through but dally s and doesn't get the shot off ,or makes the wrong decision or messes up the pass from ver good situations created by us ,, now they never seem to be logged as chances when in fact they are often far better chances than the shot onnor off target that gets logged ,,

rowetts team is being compared to a purple patch that Derby had that was fantastic to watch but I can assure you that was far from the norm over the years ,,, fair play to those who don't like what's going on at the moment and don't want to watch games because of the perceived style but my honest personal opinion is that it is far far from the dire fare some see it as ,, but hey it's opinions ,,you pays your money you takes your choice

[PistoldPete2]

On 3 December 2017 at 01:45, RamNut said:

We a re currently on course for the play offs. Therefore we have a 1 in 4 chance of promotion.

the league position is better than i expected and GR deserves credit for that

however it is true that league seems to have dipped in quality.

this side would get absolutely hammered in the prem.

 

Our chances are a lot less than 1 in 4 as we are much closer to the chasing pack than we are to the top two. 

But given our transfer business in the summer I am  certainly happy with the results if not the performances. 

[Inglorius]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete2 said:

Our chances are a lot less than 1 in 4 as we are much closer to the chasing pack than we are to the top two. 

I think RamNut meant we will have a 1 in 4 chance of promotion IF we make the playoffs. Which isn't true anyway.

[brady1993]

13 hours ago, RamNut said:

You're right that our options are very limited.

but we could play an extra striker- nugent and martin with lawrence, vydra, and weimann

or an extra attacking midfielder

martin or nugent + 4 of 5 : lawrence, johnson vydra, russell, weimann

i was impressed with the way hoffenheim played, with one 'libero' kevin vogt, and four attacking midfielders piling on to our back four. We could do that with huddlestone or thorne plus four of five as noted above.

The problem with both of those set ups is that our 'attacking midfielders' aren't really attacking midfielders and would leave us devoid of an actual midfield. If we played either id wager we'd get overrun through midfield and struggle to instigate attacks. Wiemann, Russell, Vydra and Lawrence (to a lesser degree) are all very firmly forwards but none of them are going to really get on the ball and help take control of a game.

People like to tout Johnson as an attacking midfielder because of his ability in the box but he has little in the way of  creativity, gives away possession fun and is generally clumsy. He isn't an attacking midfielder in the slightest but admittedly can be an effective (if somewhat crude) tool there.

This hits on the problem though because we lack what id call actual attacking midfielders or even players who can play somewhere between, we are kinda forced into playing two defensive midfielders so that we indeed have a midfield.

The one thing that you might be able to get away with to give you more of an attack without sacrificing balance to the midfield would be to switch to a 343 or 3412. Truth be told you could do that without a change in personal from Saturday. Push Olson higher up and tell up to hug the touch line, have Wiemann do similar on the right, shuttle Baird into a back three, give Lawrence and Vydra complete attacking freedom to float around off Martin. If that still not enough take Olsson off for a striker and shift Lawrence back to wide left.

[Kennington Ram]

It's just about putting ourselves in the right places. There's no guarantees for anyone and it seems gravity is already kicking in for Sheffield Utd. Could easily happen to Cardiff too. All it'd take is a slight improvement to 84 points and a dire run for Cardiff.

Some of our pre Ledley form was mediocre, but I'd be interested to know what the post Ledley table looks like.

I think performance will improve in the new year. 

[PodgeyRam]

9 hours ago, RamNut said:

V burton, 65% of our 'chances' were shots from outside the box, 20% were from the very edge of the box

only 3 efforts were within 12 yards range (including the goal and the blocked shot that lead to the goal on 80 minutes) 

for the rest of the game we only had 1 effort on goal from within 12 yards

which indicates that we were not really breaking them down very effectively

where are all the 'missed' chances?

 

similarly v ipswich we only had three efforts from within 12 yards range; a wild effort from curtis davies on 35 mins from a corner which nearly went out for a throw in apparently and then nothing until a blocked shot from martin on 65 mins and Ledley blazing over on 87 minutes.

 

( p.s.. Man city do win every game - currently 13 in a row  )

 

That ignores several very good chances where Vydra mishit the ball/completely missed the ball. Not forgetting their goalies brilliant save from Weimann when he deflected Huddlestone's shot towards goal. 

The key word is 'chances'. You're thinking about shots. You can have a chance and not get the shot away.

[RamNut]

21 hours ago, brady1993 said:

The problem with both of those set ups is that our 'attacking midfielders' aren't really attacking midfielders and would leave us devoid of an actual midfield. If we played either id wager we'd get overrun through midfield and struggle to instigate attacks. Wiemann, Russell, Vydra and Lawrence (to a lesser degree) are all very firmly forwards but none of them are going to really get on the ball and help take control of a game.

People like to tout Johnson as an attacking midfielder because of his ability in the box but he has little in the way of  creativity, gives away possession fun and is generally clumsy. He isn't an attacking midfielder in the slightest but admittedly can be an effective (if somewhat crude) tool there.

This hits on the problem though because we lack what id call actual attacking midfielders or even players who can play somewhere between, we are kinda forced into playing two defensive midfielders so that we indeed have a midfield.

The one thing that you might be able to get away with to give you more of an attack without sacrificing balance to the midfield would be to switch to a 343 or 3412. Truth be told you could do that without a change in personal from Saturday. Push Olson higher up and tell up to hug the touch line, have Wiemann do similar on the right, shuttle Baird into a back three, give Lawrence and Vydra complete attacking freedom to float around off Martin. If that still not enough take Olsson off for a striker and shift Lawrence back to wide left.

I do sort of agree that ours aren't really natural midfielders and there is often a big gap between the two holding players and the three advanced attacking players. But when teams sit deep that is less important. Push the full backs up a bit to assist the holding midfielder. 

[RamNut]

17 hours ago, PodgeyRam said:

That ignores several very good chances where Vydra mishit the ball/completely missed the ball. Not forgetting their goalies brilliant save from Weimann when he deflected Huddlestone's shot towards goal. 

The key word is 'chances'. You're thinking about shots. You can have a chance and not get the shot away.

I'm using distance from goal as a measure of the quality of the chances created. Blazing over from 25 yards counts as a shot/chance according to the stats but its a symptom of having failed to get into the really dangerous areas. 20 shots might found impressive. But only 3 shots within 12 yards doesn't.

compare to Reading who tore us to shreds. 8 shots, but 7 out of 8 within 22 yards.

[RamNut]

On 4 December 2017 at 08:16, Millenniumram said:

Ipswich are the second highest goalscoreres in the entire division, think there is a threat there to be fair.

11 goals from set pieces. They aren't a massive threat from open play.

how did they score? 

[brady1993]

57 minutes ago, RamNut said:

I do sort of agree that ours aren't really natural midfielders and there is often a big gap between the two holding players and the three advanced attacking players. But when teams sit deep that is less important. Push the full backs up a bit to assist the holding midfielder. 

It may seem counterintuitive but I think in that situation you would see us attack less effectively because without the other midfielder we wouldn't pen them in the same way and I suspect that the opposition would find it easier to break out and release pressure. 

In principle I agree with you but I just don't think we have the correct personal to sacrifice a defensive midfielder right now.

I think the better option for getting another forward is to sacrifice a defender and switching to a back 3.