What Went Wrong ?

[rynny]

10 minutes ago, The Arch Deacon said:

I've got you absolutely bang on with that Strov! You are absolutely right. Are you a fellow City fan by the way? A bit smug of me but I've contributing to this forum for much of the weekend, but with the best of intentions as I currently live and work in Derby and like the club very much, and get to the odd game here. The owner's statement "only when we're ready" is for me a get out of jail card to cover his arse if they don't. Their investment this year was a clear intent to get up automatically, let alone through the play-offs.

They should have persevered with Clement, but failing that should have had a top manager to replace him immediately rather than appoint their U21 coach.

 

To cherry pick that put of the statement isn't really what he was saying and wasn't trying to cover his arse if we didn't achieve promotion. It was said before any real transfer fees were paid, right from his first interview after he bought the club. He wants to get the right manager in that will want to stay at the club for as long as possible, to grow and expand with the club. Maybe he felt they rushed things employing Paul Clement and wants to take his time and see who is available in the summer. He has a policy where if the manager wants it he can have it, then if the manager fails he cannot say if this or that was signed then we could have done better. Also £10m of the money spent was to cover the long term injuries to Bryson and Hughes, that was purely to stand still, same as the signing of Ince from you. The intent from Mel Morris is to get a team good enough that we deserve to get promotion by playing good attacking football, whether that is this season, next season, the season after, it doesn't matter to the chairman as long as we look like we are going in the right direction. What he doesn't want to happen is what happened the last time we were promoted, under prepared and just not good enough in all aspects of the club.

[JW37]

Playing Martin as a target man against Dawson and Davies

[The Arch Deacon]

10 minutes ago, rynny said:

To cherry pick that put of the statement isn't really what he was saying and wasn't trying to cover his arse if we didn't achieve promotion. It was said before any real transfer fees were paid, right from his first interview after he bought the club. He wants to get the right manager in that will want to stay at the club for as long as possible, to grow and expand with the club. Maybe he felt they rushed things employing Paul Clement and wants to take his time and see who is available in the summer. He has a policy where if the manager wants it he can have it, then if the manager fails he cannot say if this or that was signed then we could have done better. Also £10m of the money spent was to cover the long term injuries to Bryson and Hughes, that was purely to stand still, same as the signing of Ince from you. The intent from Mel Morris is to get a team good enough that we deserve to get promotion by playing good attacking football, whether that is this season, next season, the season after, it doesn't matter to the chairman as long as we look like we are going in the right direction. What he doesn't want to happen is what happened the last time we were promoted, under prepared and just not good enough in all aspects of the club.

Fair point rynny. but if that was truly what he meant it seems to be at odds with his dismissal of PC after only half a season when Derby we're in the top 6, auto's were well within reach with a 2 or 3 game winning run, and irrespective of whether the football was good to watch, he clearly showed the potential to take the club forward. The summer signings met with the broad approval of the fans and the intention was clear, automatic promotion this season!!! Dismissing PC was madness IMO. Having no replacement ready crazy! Appointing the U21 coach naïve.

I'd go further and say, if he'd been allowed the time PC would have took you up as champions. And with 2 or three more signings in key areas they would have stayed up next year comfortably.

Saturday showed up the folly of that decision to replace PC with DW. At the very least, if PC had been there on Saturday, there would be still something to play for on Tuesday.

Only IMO of course!!

[Strovolos]

47 minutes ago, Rampage said:

I meant that it is not the end of the world in that our Club is otherwise in very good shape.

Our owner Mel Morris, wants to avoid a debacle if we do get promoted. He finances any signings and picks the manager. We support the team. At the end of the day it will be down to signing the right players and the right manger managing the team properly. We all know that the gap is massive. Mel Morris wants to bring Academy players into the team. I have always said that we need to get promoted for the money. We met a team that stopped us playing and was too good for us. We gave it a good enough shot to make the Play Offs but we are the 5th/6th best team in this League this year.

With all due respect, your owner sounds like a bit of a wuss!!  Wanting to wait until we're sure we won't fail??  If I were a Derby fan I'd be telling him to **** off and grow some!!

We went up in 2008 WOEFULLY under-equipped to stay up.  No money, inexperienced manager, no top-flight history, players who had been with us in the lower leagues etc etc etc.. But somehow we survived.  And although we eventually went down the year after (which was mainly for financial reason) , we laid the foundations for our return.   You have to risk failure to be successful.

[rynny]

3 minutes ago, The Arch Deacon said:

Fair point rynny. but if that was truly what he meant it seems to be at odds with his dismissal of PC after only half a season when Derby we're in the top 6, auto's were well within reach with a 2 or 3 game winning run, and irrespective of whether the football was good to watch, he clearly showed the potential to take the club forward. The summer signings met with the broad approval of the fans and the intention was clear, automatic promotion this season!!! Dismissing PC was madness IMO. Having no replacement ready crazy! Appointing the U21 coach naïve.

I'd go further and say, if he'd been allowed the time PC would have took you up as champions. And with 2 or three more signings in key areas they would have stayed up next year comfortably.

Saturday showed up the folly of that decision to replace PC with DW. At the very least, if PC had been there on Saturday, there would be still something to play for on Tuesday.

Only IMO of course!!

We were dire in form and performance when Clement was sacked, and it looked like he didn't know what to do to get out of the slump. He looked lost and confused. Didn't address Mel's concerns and was more focused on the results and where they would take him rather than the performances and where they would take the team.

I can kind of understand Mel's thinking with the appointment of DW, been at the club long enough, was here when McClaren had us at our best, knew the players and didn't need time to settle in and evaluate the players. Was great in theory, he struggled to start with, although there were a few bright sparks from the earlier performances, he struggled to really shake off the negativity in our performances until Rotherham and barring the last 10 mins it was close to where we were performing for the last couple of seasons. Harry came in and helped with our performances, and really kicked us on our way to the play offs with some very good performances, starting with the 4-0 versus you.

I don't think tomorrow as a forgone conclusion as everyone thinks. Don't get me wrong, I think you will be at Wembley, just think we will make you work for it harder than most are expecting.

[Strovolos]

3 minutes ago, rynny said:

We were dire in form and performance when Clement was sacked, and it looked like he didn't know what to do to get out of the slump. He looked lost and confused. Didn't address Mel's concerns and was more focused on the results and where they would take him rather than the performances and where they would take the team.

I can kind of understand Mel's thinking with the appointment of DW, been at the club long enough, was here when McClaren had us at our best, knew the players and didn't need time to settle in and evaluate the players. Was great in theory, he struggled to start with, although there were a few bright sparks from the earlier performances, he struggled to really shake off the negativity in our performances until Rotherham and barring the last 10 mins it was close to where we were performing for the last couple of seasons. Harry came in and helped with our performances, and really kicked us on our way to the play offs with some very good performances, starting with the 4-0 versus you.

I don't think tomorrow as a forgone conclusion as everyone thinks. Don't get me wrong, I think you will be at Wembley, just think we will make you work for it harder than most are expecting.

We've had 112 year of ****-ups and "We do things the hard way".  Nobody over here is expecting a Milk-run!!!

[Animal is a Ram]

35 minutes ago, The Arch Deacon said:

Fair point rynny. but if that was truly what he meant it seems to be at odds with his dismissal of PC after only half a season when Derby we're in the top 6, auto's were well within reach with a 2 or 3 game winning run, and irrespective of whether the football was good to watch, he clearly showed the potential to take the club forward. The summer signings met with the broad approval of the fans and the intention was clear, automatic promotion this season!!! Dismissing PC was madness IMO. Having no replacement ready crazy! Appointing the U21 coach naïve.

I'd go further and say, if he'd been allowed the time PC would have took you up as champions. And with 2 or three more signings in key areas they would have stayed up next year comfortably.

Saturday showed up the folly of that decision to replace PC with DW. At the very least, if PC had been there on Saturday, there would be still something to play for on Tuesday.

Only IMO of course!!

Appointing PC was risky.

Sacking him, however, after much thought, was the right decision. Yes, the results were there, but it wasn't pretty. Nor was it sustainable. From the outside looking in, I can appreciate why it looked like madness, but when the plan wasn't being adhered to in terms of philosophy, it was time to go.

Overall, his recruitment has been average at best. Butterfield, Johnson, Olsson have been reasonably successful, as has Shackell and Weimann to some extent, but counter that with Blackman, Camara, Baird, Pearce. Bent and Ince I don't believe were Clement signings, so I haven't included those.

After the a couple of games post Clement's sacking, it was clear that the players weren't happy under his regime - especially Ince, Russell, Martin. Safety first, possession is everything doesn't suit forwards, it doesn't suit Championship, it didn't suit Derby.

Otherwise, I wish him the best. That style will work in some places, especially Spain, but fans don't have time for it in England. Its stifling.

While DW was not the ideal candidate, it made more sense for someone who has been at Derby for that length of time to step in. Much was made of 'The Derby Way' from Mel Morris - and if anyone was going to understand what that meant, it was Wassall.

He was, however, on a hiding to nothing. For the main, he has been reasonably successful, the football has been good to watch, and the players have looked happier. Apart from when the tough got going. He showed his naivety at Rotherham. 2 forwards for a holding mid and a winger. No need to go chasing at 3-0 up. and pretty woeful tactics against a team he'd already beaten 4-0 a month prior.

I hope, for his sake, that he can continue in his previous role as Academy Director. It's come on in leaps and bounds under his stewardship. But its time for a wise head at the reins of the first team, who that would be, I have no idea.

[rynny]

8 minutes ago, Strovolos said:

We've had 112 year of ****-ups and "We do things the hard way".  Nobody over here is expecting a Milk-run!!!

I was talking mainly of this side of it.

[The Arch Deacon]

24 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

Appointing PC was risky.

Sacking him, however, after much thought, was the right decision. Yes, the results were there, but it wasn't pretty. Nor was it sustainable. From the outside looking in, I can appreciate why it looked like madness, but when the plan wasn't being adhered to in terms of philosophy, it was time to go.

Overall, his recruitment has been average at best. Butterfield, Johnson, Olsson have been reasonably successful, as has Shackell and Weimann to some extent, but counter that with Blackman, Camara, Baird, Pearce. Bent and Ince I don't believe were Clement signings, so I haven't included those.

After the a couple of games post Clement's sacking, it was clear that the players weren't happy under his regime - especially Ince, Russell, Martin. Safety first, possession is everything doesn't suit forwards, it doesn't suit Championship, it didn't suit Derby.

Otherwise, I wish him the best. That style will work in some places, especially Spain, but fans don't have time for it in England. Its stifling.

While DW was not the ideal candidate, it made more sense for someone who has been at Derby for that length of time to step in. Much was made of 'The Derby Way' from Mel Morris - and if anyone was going to understand what that meant, it was Wassall.

He was, however, on a hiding to nothing. For the main, he has been reasonably successful, the football has been good to watch, and the players have looked happier. Apart from when the tough got going. He showed his naivety at Rotherham. 2 forwards for a holding mid and a winger. No need to go chasing at 3-0 up. and pretty woeful tactics against a team he'd already beaten 4-0 a month prior.

I hope, for his sake, that he can continue in his previous role as Academy Director. It's come on in leaps and bounds under his stewardship. But its time for a wise head at the reins of the first team, who that would be, I have no idea.

I bow to your greater knowledge and passion for your club! 

Best of luck Tuesday, but I suspect SB will have the Tigers poised and ready for an onslaught. We hit well on the break and I just can't see us not scoring at some point. I predict a goal for Hull in the first 20, and if Derby heads go down as I suspect they will, it could be 3 or 4.

Unless by some miracle Wassall gets his team selection right and motivates them for once.....but I suspect not!! 

 

[Rammy1]

What went wrong. 

Bottled the big occasion. AGAIN. 

but we are where we are. We play better with no pressure. Wholesale changes next time tho. And those players know it