Possibly two new signings?

[deano180]

Great thread this is

[ronnieronalde]

Not if they have league experience through loans. You can't possibly say Pritchard is a bigger risk than picking Hanson.

If it's prtichard he loans then it's a different matter of course.

If he loans anyone that's got league experience more than Hanson, then of course that's a different matter as well.

Again though it's not really Clement or THIS loan I'm worried about.

We've put a lot into getting category A status but we've quickly turned to loan from other clubs category a over the past 3 or 4 seasons and it hasn't always worked out to have been the best move.

If he loans Pritchard or Butterfield or anyone else that's played games at this level or above, then that's NOT the kind of loan I'm against.

[Mostyn6]

I'm proud to say though, that I've never gone to the level of calling someone a window licker and never will.

I try to avoid rows at all costs, I try to defuse them by stating and then re-stating and then explaining and then backing up my point with stats.

I don't know why so many people find that annoying and argumentative.

maybe it's time you told someone to shut up and called them a cnut!

[ronnieronalde]

Heaven help us.

We're done bonny lad. I'll just stop answering you, cos even when i do, you're not really interested in the reply, you've already made your mind up what I'm saying.

There's only so many cheap digs one man can take before he realises who his friends are.

 

[sage]

If it's prtichard he loans then it's a different matter of course.

If he loans anyone that's got league experience more than Hanson, then of course that's a different matter as well.

Again though it's not really Clement or THIS loan I'm worried about.

We've put a lot into getting category A status but we've quickly turned to loan from other clubs category a over the past 3 or 4 seasons and it hasn't always worked out to have been the best move.

If he loans Pritchard or Butterfield or anyone else that's played games at this level or above, then that's NOT the kind of loan I'm against.

Have you ever thought that we are upgrading the academy to Category A to reduce the need to do this in the future. Changes to the Academy over the last 12 months won't be fully appreciated yet. You must understand that surely?  

[sage]

We're done bonny lad. There's only so many cheap digs one man can take before he realises who his friends are.

 

I shall get over this slight one day.

[Mostyn6]

If it's prtichard he loans then it's a different matter of course.

If he loans anyone that's got league experience more than Hanson, then of course that's a different matter as well.

Again though it's not really Clement or THIS loan I'm worried about.

We've put a lot into getting category A status but we've quickly turned to loan from other clubs category a over the past 3 or 4 seasons and it hasn't always worked out to have been the best move.

If he loans Pritchard or Butterfield or anyone else that's played games at this level or above, then that's NOT the kind of loan I'm against.

I think it will take a few years to flush through better talent. At the moment, and over the recent few years, we've produced a regular flow of players you'd consider 2nd-3rd tier level, we somehow need to turn that into 1st-2nd tier level. I am not sure category guarantees better players than lesser category academies, after all, the blueprint for coaching in this country is heavily influenced by the likes of Howard Wilkinson and Trevor Brooking, when the likes of Paul Hart and Dario Gradi, and the coaches at Southampton, Arsenal and West Ham should've been drawing up the standards.

Anyway, steering back to the actual topic, do we have players at the level of Butterfield and Pritchard on the fringes? No, would they improve the first team squad? Yes. Would I prefer to have players of their quality on the fringes already? Yes. We just haven't.

[gazram80]

Is anyone else the slightest bit concerned with the number of players we have/ will be bringing in. All this change must have some negative effect on team harmony.

I am concerened that this was the real reason behind our slump last season bent ince lingaard brought in and pushed other players nose out a little bit i.e dawkins ward and russell this could also be the case with more coming in.

Big squads in my opinion can cause managers problems unless you are a successful club sadly we are a championship club who may have a lot of unhappy players if not getting regular game time.

[Mostyn6]

I am concerened that this was the real reason behind our slump last season bent ince lingaard brought in and pushed other players nose out a little bit i.e dawkins ward and russell this could also be the case with more coming in.

Big squads in my opinion can cause managers problems unless you are a successful club sadly we are a championship club who may have a lot of unhappy players if not getting regular game time.

for starters, Russell and Ward were frequently injured, with the latter looking disinterested, and Dawkins' mother died. I don't think the loans made a difference. The slump was down to the fans.

[VulcanRam]

God I sound like a miserable old so and so.

I know it's very exciting to be linked with another two signings but...Oh how I hark back to the days when it was our own list of good young talent who could come in and do well here.

When it was our own talent we were developing. Academy or Under 21.

I wonder how Wass feels these days, and whether there's still such a clear path from the academy to the first team.

I remember the pitch we were given of how proud we were and how it made our recruitment for the Academy easy, we were the place to come for young lads who knew they'd get a chance if they stood out no matter how old.

Category A? No need, we'll just go out and loan other clubs young uns instead.We'll pay their wages, we'll pay their loan fees....then they can go back to Liverpool or wherever they came from.

 

 

I was wondering where all this started, and it was the post above.

I think you're wrong on this Ronnie and here's why:

a) We have Cat A status but not for long; it will take a while for the benefit of it to produce a regular conveyor belt of young players into the firs team, and besides, as as others have pointed out, we have seen two youth players brought into the 1st team already this season.

b) Looking at the players you went on to name, there's a big difference to those 'knocking on the door of their PL teams' as Clement put it as the types he is looking at, to those who have potential. Those knocking on the door I would include the likes of Ibe and Wisdom, both of whom made a significant impact and were good signings. Ibe is now a starter for Liverpool and Wisdom I'm surprised to see seems to have stalled. There was no doubting what he bought to the team though. 

The likes of Tom Carroll and Adam Smith at the time weren't knocking on the door of their first teams (although Smith was Bournemouth's RB last season and is now a PL player!) and were sent out to get experience. I don't think we're in the market for players at that stage of their development. What we are after is players who can make an immediate first team impact.

c) Ultimately Clement will look at what he needs and will go to another club if he thinks its a better option to what we have. What I like though is that he has already shown the willingness to promote from within if he feels its the best option. I'd be amazed if, at this stage of the 1st team's development, we didn't bring in anyone experienced and good enough to walk straight into the first team. The days of bringing in other team's potential at the disadvantage of our own potential - which understandably irks you so much - should be over.

 

[VulcanRam]

for starters, Russell and Ward were frequently injured, with the latter looking disinterested, and Dawkins' mother died. I don't think the loans made a difference. The slump was down to the fans.

oh no, not this again 

[gazram80]

for starters, Russell and Ward were frequently injured, with the latter looking disinterested, and Dawkins' mother died. I don't think the loans made a difference. The slump was down to the fans.

Yes ok I admit it I was the ring leader

[Howard Canitbé]

Tombo, do me a favour if you can bonny lad. Give it a rest for a while about me moaning would you?

It's getting really tiring for me not to be able to discuss ANYTHING without some kind of narky sarcy response.

Nonsensical? Why?

I'm not discussing JUST this one loan, I'm talking about Ibe, Lingaard, Wisdom, Bamford, Mascarell, CARROLL, ADAM SMITH.. all players we've loaned who've made varying degrees of impact but who are now elsewhere.

And to push a stage further how many first team appearances have that lot you've listed made in the last two years? I'm not just talking about under Clement.

I'm aware the quality of the first team has improved so the youngsters have to be so much better than they were before.

I understand it, I get it. i don't have to like it.

I just prefer to see our own lads come through, now please, stop over dramatising every point I make. It made me proud when it happened before, that's the kind of team I want to get behind.

You feel free to do whatever you want, I won't call it nonsensical.

You asked me to give it a rest the other day on Clement, I'll ask for the same from you, give me a break and allow me to discuss things without turning it into another thread where you have a go at me and then no doubt others jump on the bandwagon.

I've got to answer it, then it starts, then I'm moaning even more, then I'm complaining,, ffs all I want to do is post.

I think it's more the manner in which you've picked up on inconsequential things such as going late into the dressing room at half time, somebody (still unclear who) handing in an incorrect teamsheet that leads to the impression of you moaning. Anyway, that's not my point. 

 

Sometimes you can't just force young players through into the first team under the guise of using our own talent. If you look at the average number of players from the U21s/academies of most Championship and Premier League teams used in the first team squad I'd happily put money on the fact that we'd be up there. In the last five years we've had Mason Bennett, Will Hughes, Jeff Hendrick, Rawson, Roos, Hanson, Ssewankambo, O'Brien that I can think of off the top of my head who have come from the youth teams into the first team set up. Roos and Rawson are playing first team football, or at the very least competing for it, in a team in the Championship. For a team looking to be in and around the promotion mix you cannot simply rely on young players, you need the right blend of youth and experience in the squad. To throw young players under such intense pressure, particularly with the lofty expectations of the Derby fans might be as damaging as it could be helpful, we've seen what the pressure of competing at the top of the table did to more experienced players such as Keogh, Grant and Forsyth's confidence, imagine what that could do to a young player?

[eddie]

 

They start with Ronnie stating his opinion and an army of people jump down his throat?

 

That's not just Ronnie who's not allowed an opinion, that's a familiar theme on this forum.

It's all down to a tragic misunderstanding.